Aussies Living Simply

World without oil

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 53 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #519144
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    I quote from your article, “As with all new and experimental technology, the price to use such fuel in this prototype vehicle is astronomical”.

    It would be… At that time in 2010 was and is still when the military was/is testing biofuels. The fuels, alternative gasoline, standard diesel, JP-5 jet fuel and marine diesel, supplied from small scale facilities testing their technology for future scaled up production.

    How much did the first colour TV cost in a sea of B&W TVs?

    #519145
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    re EROEI and time frames

    the most important factor it takes millions of years to produce a barrels of oil that we burn in a few hours to do all our work and make all our food and money.

    Currently it takes three days to produce oil from algae in a bioreactor. Time is of the essence, I hear…

    #519146
    AndreAndre
    Keymaster

    A friend of mine, just around the corner, was making biodiesel in his garage. I regularly bought about 50 litres off him for about $25. My car – an old Pajero – ran fine.

    I saw how it was made (damn easy), and, as long as the other components for the mix are available, my intention is to grow my own crop for vegetable oil and make my own biodiesel, only for personal use of course :woohoo: . Obviously, my car usage would be scaled-down significantly, but that’s all in the planning. :whistle:

    I’ve no idea when ‘cheap oil’ will finish – I don’t believe it’s far away though.

    But (to me) when they start using coal-tar sands to extract the pitiful amount of oil in it – and when you take in the extra costs of production (and therefore less profits to be had) – that’s a sure sign that THEY are getting closer to desperation.

    :shrug:

    #519147
    AndreAndre
    Keymaster

    Robyne post=350397 wrote: Bathurst and Adelaide V8 peddle cars, can you imagine the drivers peddling down the straight at 300ks. :laugh:

    One of the things the show said about was what oil is used for,

    gloves doctors use in surgery, asprins, some medication and a lot of other things too many to mention

    Not seen that particular show yet, but any average person can look around their average house – and basically everything in it has an oil input of some sort. The only thing that wouldn’t would be is the organically grown food from your backyard, wood cut by hand etc …

    People seem to forget/not realise that oil is not just fuel – it’s used in storage and transport, production, heating and cooling, used to make clothes, any sort of industrial manufacturing, food, furniture, computer components, fertiliser, herbicides, communication devices, electricity/power generation, medicine (as mentioned) and their containers, buildings …

    Take oil out of the equation, and you’d be living living completely off the land and relegated to bike (until you have no more tyres or lubricant) or horses.

    #519148
    Andrew HobbsPardalote
    Participant

    I doubt algae will ever be of much use. Certainly not for producing cheap oil.

    No matter how it is grown, alga needs an energy source to fix carbon and synthesise oil. Essentially it is a converter, from sunlight to the energy embedded in oil.

    The best estimates I have seen give production values of around 10 g of carbon fixed per day per square metre of exposure to sunlight. (This is very efficient photosynthesis). At this rate it would produce around 20000 litre of oil /hectare/year. To completely replace Australian oil consumption (currently around 1 million barrels per day) would require around 30,000 square Km. Easy. But remember, this is 30,000 of high tech growing chambers, not open ponds. If you used open ponds you would be looking at at least twice the area. But even that is not the end. That only replaces our current consumption. So how much does all that high tech gear take to make/service/replace/run. And at what cost. Certainly it will not ever be cheap oil.

    Andrew

    #519149
    DennisDennis
    Member

    I believe your looking at ideas that are not pratical or cost effective, Like myself there are many people that don’t use dino oil or fuel in there cars or small engines without any problems. :huh:

    #519150
    SnagsSnags
    Member

    Bullseye post=350417 wrote: I quote from your article, “As with all new and experimental technology, the price to use such fuel in this prototype vehicle is astronomical”.

    It would be… At that time in 2010 was and is still when the military was/is testing biofuels. The fuels, alternative gasoline, standard diesel, JP-5 jet fuel and marine diesel, supplied from small scale facilities testing their technology for future scaled up production.

    How much did the first colour TV cost in a sea of B&W TVs?

    Have you seen the latest report from the Chemical Engineers?

    The energy from algal biofuel, the report finds, is less than the energy needed to make it. In terms of water, at least 32.5 billion gal would be needed to produce 10 billion gal of algae-based biofuels, the report states.

    The study also finds that making enough algal biofuels to replace just 5% of U.S. annual transportation fuel needs would require 44–107% of the total nitrogen and 20–51% of the total phosphorus consumed annually in the U.S.”

    http://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i44/Algal-Biofuels-Ready-Scale.html

    Biofuels made from algae are gaining attention as a domestic source of renewable fuel.

    However, with current technologies, scaling up production of algal biofuels to meet even 5 percent of U.S. transportation fuel needs could create unsustainable demands for energy, water, and nutrient resources.

    http://dels.nas.edu/Report/Sustainable-Development-Algal-Biofuels/13437

    #519151
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    Snags… from the report you quote.

    http://dels.nas.edu/Report/Sustainable-Development-Algal-Biofuels/13437

    Based on a review of literature published until the authoring of this report, the committee concluded that the scale-up of algal biofuel production sufficient to meet at least 5 percent of U.S. demand for transportation fuels would place unsustainable demands on energy, water, and nutrients with current technologies and knowledge. However, the potential to shift this dynamic through improvements in biological and engineering variables exists.

    Just by the way where most research is, Microalgae is grown in ponds of sea water, doesn’t place demands on freshwater. πŸ™‚

    #519152
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    Snags, from the other report you quote. http://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i44/Algal-Biofuels-Ready-Scale.html

    β€œFast-forward to 2012 and with advances in genetics and engineering we are back to the future in considering if algae can be an economic and sustainable alternative,” the report says.

    Despite the shortcomings of current technology for algal biofuels, the report does not consider sustainability to be an insurmountable barrier and notes that better mitigation strategies might be developed. More R&D is needed before β€œthe promise of sustainable development of algal biofuels has any chance of being realized,” NRC reports.

    #519153
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    Pardalote post=350438 wrote: I doubt algae will ever be of much use. Certainly not for producing cheap oil.

    No matter how it is grown, alga needs an energy source to fix carbon and synthesise oil. Essentially it is a converter, from sunlight to the energy embedded in oil.

    The best estimates I have seen give production values of around 10 g of carbon fixed per day per square metre of exposure to sunlight. (This is very efficient photosynthesis). At this rate it would produce around 20000 litre of oil /hectare/year. To completely replace Australian oil consumption (currently around 1 million barrels per day) would require around 30,000 square Km. Easy. But remember, this is 30,000 of high tech growing chambers, not open ponds. If you used open ponds you would be looking at at least twice the area. But even that is not the end. That only replaces our current consumption. So how much does all that high tech gear take to make/service/replace/run. And at what cost. Certainly it will not ever be cheap oil.

    Andrew

    Your yield figures are…! Hmmm…

    The feedstock with ultimately the most potential is algae because it has significant potential for a high yield per hectare of land. Algae can yield 100,000 litres of oil per hectare whereas the next best crop is palm oil at around 5,000 litres per hectare.

    Source.

    The actual figure from the scientific report is: Microalgae 136,900 litres/hectare at 70% oil (by wt) in biomass. Source. Yusuf Chisti Institute of Technology and Engineering, Massey University, 2007.

    http://www.massey.ac.nz/~ychisti/%7Eyc.html

    #519154
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    There’s a technology that I wont identify nor who they are. This biotech process can produce different forms of transport fuel, at the rate of well over 220,000 litres per hectare per year. Price, well under a dollar per litre. They’re well funded, have solid partnerships with big industrials. Currently not a public company. A tip, research without prejudice and watch for a public offering… πŸ™‚

    #519155
    SnagsSnags
    Member

    I wouldn’t get too excited about one line of hope in the report that was referring to just replacing 5% of supply with algae.

    Overlooking the 95% short fall

    It still has to be cheap enough to maintain exponential economic growth.

    kind of an impossible long term dream if you really think about it.

    #519156
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    Snags you brought that report in as some kind of evidence as support for your ideas. I don’t hang on any line from it…

    The report you stated is…

    Based on a review of literature published until the authoring of this report

    The report is, well, dated…

    There’s no literature published on many of these technologies, biotech and industrial secrets. The only way any info is to be gained for an insight into the state of play is through patents.

    #519157
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    There’s a fella I know who acquires used cooking oil, last delivery he said was about 3000 litres. He uses it in his tractors and other diesel equipment. If he’s running his tractor when I visit him out in the paddock, the smell of the exhaust always makes me feel hungry – for fish and chips. πŸ˜›

    #519158
    DennisDennis
    Member

    Yes thats the way to go and I see quite a a number doing just that.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 53 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.