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who to believe – global warming

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  • #257660
    Anonymous
    Guest

    G’day all,

    who is the common man to believe as he suffers increases in the cost of all necessary commodities?

    yes i was shown a graph that is supposed to indicate that since the carbon tax industry began our levels of CO2 have decreased(not visible to the human eye) but still teh climate as such rumbles on to where?

    anyhow those who love the climate change thing will no doubt have the dirt on the founders of these links:

    http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

    http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3061015&page=1

    http://www.isil.org/resources/fnn/2007june/global-warming-hoax.html

    i could paste on infinitum just like the others, and yes my grammar and spelling may faulter, but those of us still deserve a say as we are led to the block.

    we believe other writtings read a good read this morning written around 2k years ago(how did they have such wisdom)

    anyhow when they can actually show the climate cahnge for teh better then the CO2 graph may hold some truth?

    have a nice day all

    good rain we’ve had(all weather events compared to a mere 200 years of history)

    len

    #531608
    DanHowerDanHower
    Member

    It seems the best days of the climate movement are over. Below I have linked two articles (translated by Google) in two of the largest German newspapers about home insulation and climate change both saying that a lot of damage and cost has been caused by the laws that force home owners to insulate their homes with foam to “save the climate”.

    And they even dare to say who makes huge profit from the climate fear: The government makes lots of money in taxes, and the chemical industry is working overtime since years to make all that foam that is getting glued to the outside of the houses making them feel like living in a plastic bag.

    Many other facts in the articles, and they conclude the whole insulation hype will be a thing of the past within 10 years when people have realised their houses have turned into mould and all the foam has to be ripped off and no one knows what to do with that poisonous stuff. But until then it will continue to release poisonous chemicals being washed off by the rain an poisoning everything around the houses and the groundwater.

    Since both newspapers are government controlled and until now were strictly pro climate it is probably a sign that the government will soon end the climate thing, which they probably can’t hold up any more since most of the people consider it ridiculous to talk about global warming when they look out the window and see snow at Easter when in the old days there usually were flowers blooming.

    So I’d say we better stop bothering about the climate now and start taking care about really important matters like the environment pollution, overpopulation and our criminal Governments.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://www.capital.de/politik/:Energiepolitik–Verdaemmt-und-zugeklebt/100050113.html%3Fmode%3Dprint&act=url

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://www.welt.de/finanzen/immobilien/article114866146/Die-grosse-Luege-von-der-Waermedaemmung.html&act=url

    #531609
    casalentacasalenta
    Member

    gardenlen post=354324 wrote: g’day all,

    who is the common man to believe as he suffers increases in the cost of all necessary commodities?

    Len,

    The media loves sensationalism, and loves frightening people – it sells more papers and more advertising. The pollies love the same things, especially when it means they can introduce more fees, charges and taxes, and can be seen to be doing something to ‘save us’.

    So, who can you trust? Nobody. Do some research and trust only those sources who have nothing to gain (and have an address and phone number).

    I think the thing is we just don’t know what the climate will do next because nobody fully understands it. It’s too complex to model perfectly, and it’s always changing, and is especially variable during an ice age, such as the one we’re in now. Yes, it was getting hotter in the 90s, but for the last 17 years there’s been no increase in temperature despite continuing increases in CO2 emissions.

    I remember the 1970s coming Ice Age scare. Didn’t happen. Y2K. Didn’t happen.

    But, if you can convert to renewable forms of energy, it’s a great idea, and not because it’s reducing carbon emissions. If you can afford solar panels and solar hot water – go for it – as fossil fuels are slowly running out and will become more expensive. Use less energy generally, and then you’ll pay less. Even our great grandparents managed perfectly well without electricity at all, so sometimes it pays to ‘think outside the square’. Having said that, I know money is tight at the moment for a lot of people.

    Here are some links for you:

    James Lovelock (the original alarmist) now says he was wrong: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/24/lovelock_clangers/

    Ice ages (we’re in one!):

    http://geology.utah.gov/surveynotes/gladasked/gladice_ages.htm

    CO2 will save us from another glaciation:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/09/peat_ice_age_coming_only_co2_can_save_us/

    I think Len, just do the best you can with what you have. Live a simple life with no affluenza and if the climate doomsayers are right you won’t have been adding to the problem. I can’t find the quote at the moment, but someone said we’re here by geological consent, and that consent can be withdrawn at any time. Enjoy life and have fun.

    #531610
    SnagsSnags
    Member

    gardenlen post=354324 wrote: g’day all,

    who is the common man to believe as he suffers increases in the cost of all necessary commodities?

    yes i was shown a graph that is supposed to indicate that since the carbon tax industry began our levels of CO2 have decreased(not visible to the human eye) but still teh climate as such rumbles on to where?

    anyhow those who love the climate change thing will no doubt have the dirt on the founders of these links:

    http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

    http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3061015&page=1

    http://www.isil.org/resources/fnn/2007june/global-warming-hoax.html

    i could paste on infinitum just like the others, and yes my grammar and spelling may faulter, but those of us still deserve a say as we are led to the block.

    we believe other writtings read a good read this morning written around 2k years ago(how did they have such wisdom)

    anyhow when they can actually show the climate cahnge for teh better then the CO2 graph may hold some truth?

    have a nice day all

    good rain we’ve had(all weather events compared to a mere 200 years of history)

    len

    without going through them all in detail but just very basic googling

    The first one is basically a right wing political lobby group funded in part by the oil and gas industry and wealthy donors with right wing political agendas.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Friends_of_Science

    Its the same old story the afluenza infected, right wing, BAU, corporation loving types , sucking in the poor uneducated guy into fighting his fight,allowing them to rape and pillage some more.

    #531611
    AirgeadAirgead
    Member

    And just on the whole Y2K didn’t happen…

    I was there. In the indiustry. At y2k. The whole reason nothing happened is that tens of thousands of people worked their rings off (me included) for months beforehand to make sure that everything went smoothly.

    I worked in industrial control. Had we not fixed our issues in time the impact on manufacturing would have been huge. Plants would have literally shut down, or worse, run out of control (boom). Likewise in other sectors.

    We did dozens of simualted runs (I think I lived through about 200 Y2k’s…) to make sure that on the day, everything would work. And it did.

    If we had ignored the problem it would have been an absolute disaster.

    Now… Let’s compare this to climate change again… We can ignore the problem…

    Cheers

    Dave

    #531612
    Lady BeeLady Bee
    Keymaster

    The difference between Y2K and Climate Change/Global Warming is that with the latter there is no real known “deadline”. No line in the sand where you just know it has to be fixed by. If there was and everyone spent as much time, money and effort in combatting/preventing CC/GW as they did in combatting/preventing Y2K, we might actually be able to make a difference.

    Personally, I think we’re stuffed.

    #531613
    Hummer HumbugHummer
    Keymaster

    Lady B post=355140 wrote:

    Personally, I think we’re stuffed.

    I think we’ll be ok.. it will be our kids.. our kids, kids … and so on, that suffers the most :dry:

    #531614
    BobbeeBobbee
    Member

    I am a ‘glass half full’ person and I have a deep Faith in humanity and the Powers That Be, in my opinion we will continue and the planet earth will fulfill its life purpose.

    🙂

    PS: The PTB I refer to are not those in government.

    #531615
    SnagsSnags
    Member

    Its hard to have faith in a greed driven humans who aren’t swayed by facts

    Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds.

    In fact, quite the opposite.

    In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds.

    In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs.

    Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation.

    Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

    Most of us like to believe that our opinions have been formed over time by careful, rational consideration of facts and ideas, and that the decisions based on those opinions, therefore, have the ring of soundness and intelligence.

    In reality, we often base our opinions on our beliefs, which can have an uneasy relationship with facts.

    And rather than facts driving beliefs, our beliefs can dictate the facts we chose to accept.

    They can cause us to twist facts so they fit better with our preconceived notions. Worst of all, they can lead us to uncritically accept bad information just because it reinforces our beliefs.

    This reinforcement makes us more confident we’re right, and even less likely to listen to any new information.

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

    #531616
    Lady BeeLady Bee
    Keymaster

    Humbug post=355142 wrote:

    Personally, I think we’re stuffed.

    I think we’ll be ok.. it will be our kids.. our kids, kids … and so on, that suffers the most :dry:

    When I said “we” I was meaning the human race as a whole, not just us here right now.

    #531617
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    We were provided a limit but it wasn’t in an exact “time” like Y2K. The limit was in atmospheric CO2 parts per million with an approximate time.

    The upper safety limit warning for atmospheric CO2 is 350 ppm. The last time that our atmosphere was 350 ppm CO2 was in 1988.

    We, as the human race have failed to act appropriately.

    “Carbon dioxide (CO2) is the chief greenhouse gas that results from human activities and causes global warming and climate change. To see whether enough is being done at the moment to solve these global problems, there is no single indicator as complete and current as the monthly updates for atmospheric CO2 from the Mauna Loa Observatory. – National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.” http://co2now.org/

    CO2 in February 2011 was 391.82 ppm, in February last year CO2 was 393.54 ppm.

    As of February 2013, CO2 was 396.80 ppm.

    #531618
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    “who to believe”, it’s not about belief, it’s about knowledge and understanding.

    “Stephen Schneider talks to 52 Climate Change Skeptics”

    #531619
    Lady BeeLady Bee
    Keymaster

    Bullseye post=355158 wrote: We were provided a limit but it wasn’t in an exact “time” like Y2K. The limit was in atmospheric CO2 parts per million with an approximate time.

    The upper safety limit warning for atmospheric CO2 is 350 ppm. The last time that our atmosphere was 350 ppm CO2 was in 1988.

    Therein lies the problem. With Y2K, there was an absolute deadline and if that wasn’t met, planes would have fallen out of the sky, manufacturing plants would have shut down, electricity, telephone, water infrastructure would have failed, trains stopped running, etc. etc.

    We have overstepped the limit for CO2, but the world is still functioning, everyone is going about their normal, everyday life and for all intents and purposes nothing much has changed.

    #531620
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    everyday life and for all intents and purposes nothing much has changed.

    Yes for some people, who aren’t looking, without knowledge nor foresight, those not quantifying the environment the plants and the other animals, those humans’ lives might appear unchanged now.

    A false sense of security we might say.

    For those people who are quantifying and seeing the environmental changes for all other life on this planet, life highly dependant on narrow niches and specialised resources for their survival, survival has been observed to be tougher for those species and will continue to be.

    #531621
    BullseyeBullseye
    Member

    Richard Dawkins responds to a question on the scientific method… 😉

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