Warning Mulch & Manure Aminopyralid Contamination

[Anonymous]

bobbee,

permaculture research institute

might be a bit of bool why sorghum growers use herbicides, but it doesn’t explain why they use a hebicide to kill the sorghum when they deem the grain is mature enough to be harvested(science hand here), in other words rush the harvest so they can get an erlier planting of the next crop.

and if they didn’t mono-crop they may not need such and impressive list of herbicides to use.

len

[JarnMember]

lostinthefog post=352645 wrote: My husband works as a gardener on the properties…not on the farming side-and he has often been told not to be a sissy when he refuses to use certain sprays without protective gear…they’re all ‘don’t be such a big girl..it’s perfectly safe’!

And lets be honest…some of the farmhands aren’t the brightest bulbs in the pack, and they often mix sprays at the wrong rate, or fail to wash out sprayers between different chemicals, makes your blood run cold….

lostinthefog, your husband is right to show concern for use of chemicals, and those calling him, are as you say not the “brightest bulbs”. I, not long ago renewed my cert 4 chemical application cert, which these days teaches integrated pest/weed management with chemicals only used as the last resort. The guy teaching the unit had been working with chemicals for weed control for 25 years, starting when he was 16. He used protective equipment for many of the last years in the industry, but his early years as a bullet proof teenager surrounded by dim light bulbs for work mates sprayed the apparently harmless chemicals with no protection. Now just over forty he has lost the feeling in his hands, his hands are permanently wet from constant sweating of his palms and his skin that you can see (face, hands etc) is all red blotched and looks like what you would expect to see on a person in their late eighties, nineties. He is constantly fighting health issues related top chemical exposure and made a comment that he did not expect to see another twenty years out. And he sees himself as a lucky one with many of his colleagues from his early chemical years already pass away. Spraying chemicals without protective equipment (manufacture recommendations at the least) is not only illegal (sissy or not) but is just plain stupid, I say good on your husband for standing by his concerns. 🙂

[porgeyMember]

It really is quite appauling that so much contamination from intended, permitted and legal use ends up in the environment and in our food supply. The theoretical answer of course is grow your own and swap/buy local. I am having great success with growing my own and the only pesticide I use is pyrethrum for the cherry slug that seems to be under control with only one spray this summer.

I use to mulch the vegg but found that the slaters had a field day in the warm moist conditions and bred out of control. After trapping thousands of the little buggers I flamed them and that has helped greatly. I solved the no mulch problem by interplanting between planned veggies with small fillers such as Radish’ & Alpine Strawberries that help control both weed growth and moisture loss with the added advantage of extra food.

Its quite obvious to me that “expert” advice from retailers, magazines, TV gurus and chemical comapnies etc is far from gospel and the best way to garden in your patch successfully is to garden in your patch and try filling every square centremeter. Even weeds can be handy as they prevent nutrient loss if pulled before seeding and composted.

On a home scale you can really cut down on bought inputs just by looking at what nature does best and giving her a helping hand. So far from feeling helpless and dismaid at contaminated garden inputs dont use them and seek better, healthier, cheaper and more sustainable methods.

[jaden62Member]

Porgey, I’ve had problems with slaters, earwigs, slugs & snails in various mulches & I read with interest about your interplanting. Now I have a question. Much as we know mint is a pest in the ground, would it work as an interplanting in a raised bed? Would it escape into the surrounding soil from a 400mm bed? Would it be worthwhile trying to plant that & just “tear holes” in it when I’m trying to plant other things, or would the roots etc just strangle anything else I’m planting?

If not mint, what about things like Thyme or Chamomile? I’m trying to think of things that tend to grow without a lot of “external interference” but that won’t smother/strangle/otherwise kill other plants that I’m trying to put in.

I’ve already discovered that having a raised bed surrounded by Rosemary & Lavender seems to work to help keep the numbers of pests down. They don’t stay away entirely, but I don’t seem to have big problems with them in that bed, so I’m going to replant them when I move that bed & when I get given another large bed. The thickness of the Rosemary & Lavender also seems to give some protection to the metal sides of the beds too, so that also seems to be a help.

I welcome any other suggestions too, as I’m fairly new to this gardening game, & even though I’ve got books everywhere I feel like I’m learning by braille.

[porgeyMember]

I would just like to preface this post by correcting my reference to various pests as stated earlier. Whilst both cherry slug & slaters are a nuisance, and of course add snails & slugs, they are a great food source for higher order animals such as chickens & ducks. Unfortunately I cant extend my veg garden to include them which is sad as I could raise a small army of chookens with the critters I have. But this shows the importance of balance in the garden that is so lacking in large scale monoculture enterprises.

jaden62, mint would probably get out of control after awhile and start to dominate. In trying to create a lazy symbiosis in my patch I pick what I want and interplant as stated earlier. Other good interplanters could be baby beets & carrots, cos lettuce, bush peas & beans (which would benefit from neighbourly support as well), sprawling cucumbers (small lebanese & Mexican are ideal), Corsican mint, any strawberry but Alpine is my fave, chives, etc.

Nature likes to keep soil covered so you will quickly find that given favourable conditions your veg will grow well even though it may look a bit unorganised to the unsuspecting eye. Next summer I am going to have climbing beans, corn, potatoes, cucurbits & artichokes in defined spots then mass scatter everything else to create a lazy symbiosis to see how it compares to my almost military like grid formation of summers past.

So if anyone is concerned with possible contamination from bought mulch worry no more. In addition sowing patches of lucerne, oats, etc around the garden is of great benefit as it can be used as a filling mulch, soil improver, compost addition, green manure etc.

[Anonymous]

for us slaters indicate a healthy medium, especially if they are not causing any plant damage(never had that) if they have plenty of organic matter to eat and recycle they are harmless. now snails/slugs we have had at times none here, and none where we last lived, but the shell models we crush for the ants to eat and the others we spray strong as coffee regular, works best on the youngest slugs but used often good control can be attained.

ants can bring their own issues eg.,. mealy bugs, aphids and scale, but there again we deal with it as it first occurs.

a family of blue tongued lizards would also eat the snails, but if cats are about you have no hope.

we do at times get earwigs but always low volumes, not sure what damage they do but maybe like teh slaters with plenty to eat they are happy.

len

[ThisildoParticipant]

jaden62 post=352718 wrote: Porgey, I’ve had problems with slaters, earwigs, slugs & snails in various mulches & I read with interest about your interplanting. Now I have a question. Much as we know mint is a pest in the ground, would it work as an interplanting in a raised bed? Would it escape into the surrounding soil from a 400mm bed? Would it be worthwhile trying to plant that & just “tear holes” in it when I’m trying to plant other things, or would the roots etc just strangle anything else I’m planting?

If not mint, what about things like Thyme or Chamomile? I’m trying to think of things that tend to grow without a lot of “external interference” but that won’t smother/strangle/otherwise kill other plants that I’m trying to put in.

I’ve already discovered that having a raised bed surrounded by Rosemary & Lavender seems to work to help keep the numbers of pests down. They don’t stay away entirely, but I don’t seem to have big problems with them in that bed, so I’m going to replant them when I move that bed & when I get given another large bed. The thickness of the Rosemary & Lavender also seems to give some protection to the metal sides of the beds too, so that also seems to be a help.

I welcome any other suggestions too, as I’m fairly new to this gardening game, & even though I’ve got books everywhere I feel like I’m learning by braille.

I wouldn’t use mint for the reasons you mentioned. I would suggest you use borage which is quick growing with lots of blue or white flowers which attracts a lot of bees. Borage suppresses weeds and shades the ground. Does not need any special watering care and can be pulled when you need the space. The pulled plants can be placed around seedlings to deter snails and slugs as they wont crawl on the fine hairy leaves. Mulch or compost made from old borage plants is a rich source of feed for your soil. The only disadvantages of borage are that you need to wear gloves when handling it and it is very prolific but that can be overcome by cutting off some of the flower heads before they seed. The plants are easily pulled If it does get out of control. As you can guess I’m a big fan of borage.

[porgeyMember]

I will second the use of Borage prolifically in the garden, especially in late winter and Spring as it provides great food for bees. However, I would not use it as a ground covering intercropper as its far to big and the root system rather dominant.

[BobbeeMember]

I’m a great fan of borage too but I agree that it grows too big to use as between seedling ground cover. Have you thought of trying radishes they grow fast from seed and you can eat them. I use various types of thyme as ground cover but I wouldn’t be pulling it out. It also brings predator insects and also bees so I have read.

Allysum is great for the same reasons as thyme.

I would not advise growing mint as a fill in plant. Yes you can pull it our but it is quite a tough job. Why give yourself more work.

I use mulch and with a non-chemical garden the creatures that appear seem to keep themselves in reasonable balance. And that includes a monumental number of woolly aphids at one point.

You might like to try succession planting with your veg. That too helps keep the ground covered.

[porgeyMember]

One plant that might be worth trying is Convovulus sabitus as a ground covering interplanter. As it rarely produces a secondary root system, is non weedy or invasive, and when young is fairly fine stemmed it could have real advantages in the garden as an evergreen living mulch. The bees love it and its easy to control.

Being evergreen, however, it would be problematic in that fertilising and spreading compost would be a bit tricky but nothing a good mindful buddhist couldn’t manage. Its also not edible, would be a haven for slaters but its easy to control, looks lovely and very easy to part to make way for any vegg taller than 20mm. I might strike a few to see how it goes in the coming years.

As Common mint is too invasive and should be contained with a root barrier or large buried bottomless pot my previous suggestion of Corsican mint is worth a try. It has quite a distinct perfume but whilst its root system is shallow and easy to control it does spread when watered.

Everything and anything that grows is worth trying. As all patchs and micro climates are slightly different with there own growing conditions any apparent failure is a plus as it teaches you the limits but potential of your garden.

[maMember]

Bobbee, I’m with you … Alyssum is fabulous … it self-seeds, but isn’t big enough to compete with the food plants, flowers almost incessantly, and the bees adore it. Drought tolerant, salt tolerant and wind tolerant to boot!

PS. It copes, in places where even my Thyme refuses to grow!

[lostinthefogMember]

Some great ideas to overcome the mulch & manure problem :), I also have a rather chaotic garden and the soil is usually covered by the foliage of plants…I admit sometimes weeds!

I have been reading about Buckwheat as a good crop to grow on vacant beds and in gaps so am going to give that a go…also using Fenugreek (which is tough as old boots) and Mustard.

My husband was told that one of the farms he works on spends over $200,000 a year on farm chemicals :jawdrop:…scary!

[treetopsdreamingMember]

Thank you to everyone for posting the information in this thread (and other related threads on ALS). Over the past 7 years, we have brought tons of various mulches and manures (both organic and non-organic) onto our property to build garden beds (as several areas had been reduced to compacted clay subsoil).

For the first time, I believe we are experiencing a mild case of this poisoning in several of our new raised vegetable beds. The manure we used came from a local farmer and was composted for about 1 1/2 years. (This step is probably what saved us from the problem being much more severe). The most prone veggies (including tomatoes, capsicums, beans, and peas) displayed classic symptoms (ie. good growth for 2-3 weeks, followed by fully cupped leaves and general wasting.) Fortunately, about half have gone on to recover and are producing reasonable crops (that are supposedly edible :)) . However, we must now focus on repairing the soil by introducing microbes and worms (to break down the remaining residues as fast as possible)…

Given this threat is so widespread and difficult to trace (ie. did our problem arise directly from the farmer spraying or indirectly from the supplemental feed they used), we will definitely be changing our approach from now on. I find it impossible to understand why humans are contaminating such critical inputs. Most sources of non-organic mulch and manure are now potentially toxic to vegetable growth for years. How mind boggling…

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