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Aussies Living Simply

Transport Post the Peak

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    Fair enough. I am happy to agree to disagree and accept that some people just don’t see my point of view and that presented. Don’t want the thread locked so I will leave it at that and get back on topic!

    As a more shorter term solution (in a country environment), I am hoping to have a vehicle converted to run dual fuel with LPG Auto (if i can afford it :jawdrop: )

    We have some bikes and spare tubes, but they are all average/low quality.

    I think finding some more dollars to put towards quality bikes and extra tubes is a more medium term solution. (Damn it :angry: , just thought about that one. I will have to update my list :blink: :blush: )

    With regard to the longer term solution, I am seriously contemplating getting a horse or two in about 10 years. I figure it will be good for me and the family to reacquaint ourself with looking after a horse or two and riding etc. Can’t hurt. :tup:


    I hark back to derailment of the topic with a “Greenwash” accusation (aka accusations of myself providing false information) and the erroneous EROEI example for hydrogen – followed by applause…   :huh:  Nothing like resorting to what is tantamount to name calling, of my first response in this topic, to bring the level of discussion down.

    We can all learn something from each other without stiffing discussion with that…!

    I was simply providing a different view or in fact what I was pointing out were, facts of the here and now. i.e.

    About half a dozen or more car manufacturers, including Toyota, Ford, BMW, Daimler-MercedesBenz, Honda, Hyundai and Chinese auto-markers too, are making hydrogen fuel cell cars.

    By 2015 there is a commitment to have these cars commercially available.

    One can’t be held responsible if some don’t like what’s actually in or on the auto production pipeline, or what’s brewing in the chemistry lab.

    Keep and open mind, be positive. Peak oil and its production decline doesn’t necessarily mean the end of civilisation as we know it. I find that akin to the predicted 2012 type “biblical and other prophecies”. We don’t know that’s going to happen. But there’s nothing wrong with being prepared for emergencies and self-sufficiency.

    Although, what we do need to be concerned with is, continuing along this fossil fuel CO2 emitting path. We really need to avoid raising CO2 in our atmosphere another 100 parts per million, from 390 ppm to 490 ppm. Because what we understand (science) is an atmosphere of 500 ppm CO2 means greenhouse earth conditions that existed during the Cretaceous and Cainozoic periods – that’s not a good thing.

    Thankfully there are great minds working on innovative alternatives to fossil fuels and alternative products powered by renewables. Transport products like the Suzuki Burgman hydrogen fuel cell scooter being tested now and the 2009 prototype NH2 New Holland hydrogen fuel cell tractor (to be available around 2015).


    Good evening all :wave:

    If I may be so bold as to interrupt this great scientific ‘debate‘ that we ‘seem‘ to be having here.

    May I be the first to suggest a few things to anybody who may or may not be interested:

    1_____Certain herbal teas have a soothing effect on the mind and body

    2_____Certain prescription drugs also have a similar effect (please see your health professional first)

    3_____Sometimes even a hot bath can have the same effect.


    Please feel free to try any or all of the above and return more refreshed and in a better mood.

    That is all, please carry on.:tup:

    Doc 😉


    Hmmm, Doc, is your response natural or artificially induced?   🙂



    Doc 😉


    Well my transport ‘post peak and poo hitting fan’ is intended to be a 3 or preferably 4 wheel ‘bike’ with a box sitting behind for carrying ‘stuff’.

    Mr. Bobs will build it. He is a great one for saving bike bits and pieces and wheels and things, has even been known to turn a wooden wheel for a lawn mower.

    I can’t have a 2 wheel bike and trailer because I fall off two wheelers. :jawdrop:


    Within our ‘community’ we have folk to barter with and share with, within bike riding distance (‘specially if they let me stay overnight before the trip home).

    The shops are within riding or walking distance. Presumably there would be days when some stock would be available, maybe we will have to queue up like in some other countries.

    Take care,



    Sorry for taking part in the thread drift – conversations naturally flow from one topic to the other, but I agree, on a forum that can be confusing!

    We live about 25km from town, although we have a small local store/servo about 4km down the road. There is a local hall/open space about 6 km the other direction – I can see either/both being used as community hubs where local growers would be able to bring their crops/products to sell (we live in an area full of small-meduim farms that grow a huge range of everything from cow/goat dairies to orchard fruits/nuts to small crops).

    Currently we drive a medium sized FWD (our driveway is FWD only), but we’re planning on using bikes/walking post peak. Most of our travel would be within 10km of home, with only occasional trips to town. Bikes are meant to be the most energy efficient means of transport, but then animals like horses and donkeys have additional uses on a small farm too – it’s a dillema, but then we don’t have the infrastructure/skills for managing larger animals well, and I don’t want to taken on animals that we can’t care for responsibly, yk?


    Since nobody’s mentioned it yet, I’ll weigh in with water transport. Before railways, waterways were used extensively to move goods and people around the landscape. In a post-Oil future, costal cities and inland towns on navigable rivers might come back into (economic) prominence. Dmitry Orlov has a good essay on this: The New Age of Sail



    Don’t know if this works in an Aussie context.

    There are only some river systems that could support water transport. I know we are mainly coastal dwellers, but the coast simply can’t support everyone in a prolonged crisis.

    Those on land near the coast or a big enough river may be OK, but I suspect the waterways would not be able to handle the volume required for the population numbers. Arable land away from our coast has been used since Australia was colonised and is where many still are (all our inland cities, townships etc). As transport issues become more and more difficult in coming years, it may actually seem better to live in a big population center on or near the coast (ease of transport, schools, services etc) but in actual fact, to a large extent you will be relying too heavy on the status quo being maintained and it will be shortlived.

    Anyways, they are some initial thoughts.


    Agreed, DB346.

    Australia isn’t well endowed with navigable rivers and since settlement occurred at the dawn of the Steam Age, the settlers ‘leapfroged’ a canal network and went straight to railways and roads. This leaves us with no ‘legacy’ of older bulk-transport infrastructure to fall back on, unlike North America, the U.K. and Europe.

    As long as the climate doesn’t go (too) haywire – which will make settlement in one location extremely hazardous – I think inland settlements will continue. But they’ll be subsistence farmers (or gardeners, more likely) and won’t be producing or transporting produce on an industrial scale. (Low-bulk, high-value goods only.) They’ll play only the most minor part in the national economy.

    The carrying capacity of costal areas is moot. I think the demise of motorised transportation and industrial agriculture will result in famine and arguably, the largest die-back of H. Sapiens in history – about five billion – because that’s how many are alive, thanks to our ability to grow food on an industrial scale and transport it to every corner of the world.

    Dmitry has just published an excellent follow-up, to his earlier essay.

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