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Aussies Living Simply

Transport Post the Peak

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 70 total)
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  • #497001
    df418df418
    Member

    The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil NOT bio-diesel

    (1900 Paris Exposition)

    Grow peanuts!!!

    #497002
    simonusshersimonussher
    Member

    I think in the rural setting trips will simply become less frequent, and horses etc could be considered for middle distance trips.

    The upshot of all of this is that everything we import will become much more expensive, including a lot of foods. Self sufficiency will be an essential skill, even for urbanites.

    #497003
    caddiecaddie
    Participant

    Seems to me that there will be a swing back to how things used to be!!!!

    When my in laws were setting up thier home and family on a farm in the middle of nowhere they had to be very self supporting.

    Schools were within walking distance, so lots of little one teacher schools.Maybe 8 or so kids.

    The teacher usually boarded with a family.

    Social life was only with those in close proximity. maybe tennis or cricket on Sundays with every one bringing some food for sharing.

    Family communication was by letter only with a very occasional visit which was looked forward to with much longing.

    Shopping was 2 day trip twice a year,by horse and cart.

    Food was mainly what they could grow suplemented by Kangaroo.

    Rabbit meat was also used but our lot didn’t likr it.

    There was a milking cow to provide milk, butter and meat.

    Poultry in various forms, eggs and meat.

    This was ahard life butI think people visited each other more than they do today, it was a close , help each other kind of community.

    This is how I suspect things will come about as the fuel situation worsens.

    #497004
    diannedianne
    Participant

    DB346 post=312456 wrote: Why would you need to travel to any place? You assume they will have supplies and stuff you can purchase? Is the point missed?

    Depends how bad it gets, but I would strongly suspect any travel (unless to a community based market or similar) would not be worth the effort.

    Some food for thought. Why will the city or town have goods in the future noting they will be subject to the limitations of fossil fuels and costs?

    Hence the immportance of local resilience. Do you really need the items?

    You can hope that supplies will continue to be available, but it is certainly not a given. My research into these areas has left me full of doubts noting our reliance on road freight, diesel trains and the fossil fuel inputs in the production of everything.

    While I agree with you here, I think this aplies at the begining, when everything first starts to go wrong. once we start to recoop a “normal” life I do think we will again begin to travel. Not as the Brisbane to Sydney type of thing we have today, but our immediate local area will widen slightly. our cities will be a lot different to the hugh businesses of today, but they will still be and function in some way. As most of our capitals are major ports, shipping may become a big thing there. they will still be a good place for factories. when these type of things become sorted then you may like to/need to travel some. And then if these things are set up, they require people to work which then need feeding from our farms, again transport needed. I think if you start to think back, they still had transport but just not what we have today. Post was moved by horse not road freight, steam train, sail ships ect.

    If we all stop consontrating on the “how bad it is going to be” and work on the “how we will make things work” it all starts to get a little less scary and a little bit more livable.

    #497005
    DB346DB346
    Member

    dianne post=312570 wrote:

    Why would you need to travel to any place? You assume they will have supplies and stuff you can purchase? Is the point missed?

    Depends how bad it gets, but I would strongly suspect any travel (unless to a community based market or similar) would not be worth the effort.

    Some food for thought. Why will the city or town have goods in the future noting they will be subject to the limitations of fossil fuels and costs?

    Hence the immportance of local resilience. Do you really need the items?

    You can hope that supplies will continue to be available, but it is certainly not a given. My research into these areas has left me full of doubts noting our reliance on road freight, diesel trains and the fossil fuel inputs in the production of everything.

    While I agree with you here, I think this aplies at the begining, when everything first starts to go wrong. once we start to recoop a “normal” life I do think we will again begin to travel. Not as the Brisbane to Sydney type of thing we have today, but our immediate local area will widen slightly. our cities will be a lot different to the hugh businesses of today, but they will still be and function in some way. As most of our capitals are major ports, shipping may become a big thing there. they will still be a good place for factories. when these type of things become sorted then you may like to/need to travel some. And then if these things are set up, they require people to work which then need feeding from our farms, again transport needed. I think if you start to think back, they still had transport but just not what we have today. Post was moved by horse not road freight, steam train, sail ships ect.

    If we all stop consontrating on the “how bad it is going to be” and work on the “how we will make things work” it all starts to get a little less scary and a little bit more livable.

    Dianne,

    I think you are right and that we will most likely revert to a more ‘horse and cart’ based transport system in the end.

    Life will go on, I have no doubt, but you can not ignore the getting to the ‘horse and cart’ point. This is where my own doubts lay and why I am trying to live a bit more simply, self sufficient and community based.

    #497006
    caddiecaddie
    Participant

    Things were really bad in the farming sector in the 70’s

    An older lady said to me

    “Dont tell me you farmers are having it bad.I haven’t seen one horse and cart come into town!!!”

    My reply was

    “This is the 70s not the 30s

    In the 30s farmers still had horses and carts so they could put the car up on blocks and wait it out.

    Now if you can find a horse, broken to harness and a cart to go with it, it is worth more than a car so fo course you are not going to see the same things happening as you saw in the 30s”

    She though about this for a while then said

    ” I DIDN’T THINK ABOUT IT LIKE THAT”

    #497007
    PinetreePinetree
    Member

    Agreed, travel imediatly after any crunch will be limited, no point going to built up areas looking for help/supplies, probably be dangerous also. But once things settle a bit, the ability to have limited local travel will have benifits, visiting (mental health), group harvesting/planting (labour will be needed), gathering/fishing/hunting. For these types of travel push bikes and walking IMO would be economical (energy wise) and safe (quiet, not draw unwanted attention) means of getting around.

    Horses, donkeys etc, are good options if you have the ability and time (i am busy now when I have to produce/gather all our food fuel etc we will be flat out!) to allow them to graze for all their food (grain will be too valuable for human food)and have sufficent animals to rotate their use to allow for resting/lameness etc, however there are still inputs, Shoeing (barefoot is a issue with tare or rocky roads), grooming, training etc.

    Bullocks may be an option for short heavy trips or for agricultural work, however a certain amount of training would be required. Again you would need enough grazing for food plus your bullocks (unless you combine the two). Bullock Tac is reasonably low tec also.

    Again IMO, there may be a place for solar powered electric vehicles, while they are pricy to buy/make, their running costs (energy/time wise) could be suitable. It would draw attention to you on the road(down side), but for growing food and gathering fire wood etc they may work. When not in use plug in and do other work?

    http://freepowersys.com/suhorse.htm

    http://ruralsurvival.com/electric_farm_tractor.html

    http://www.renewables.com/Products/SolTracCrawler.htm

    http://www.freepowersys.com/videos.html

    Does any body have any other thoughts on electric options???

    Cheers

    Pinetree

    #497008
    JinjaJinja
    Member

    Electrical assisted bikes?…batteries only last 3 years at the moment, but they go at 25 kph, travel 30-40 kms depending on hills and then just peddle. I agree with the whole Transition Town type thinking and I also don’t see why it’s what we have or horse and carts, although Government will likely get in the way. Can you remember life before we all got connected on these ‘computer’ thingies, where will we go to ‘connect’ to learn given we’ve all forgotten so much and no I can imagine life without computers and can go the whole holocaust scenario but I also hope it doesn’t happen (and maybe I am burying my head but it makes me feel better) Working from home via computer for office workers (less travel, more quality time for growing vegies and family/community, less impact on the earth), solar powered recharged vehicles, simpler needs, knowing when we have enough. If we can just cut back on the fossil fuel use NOW, then it will last longer (but then hey it’ll maybe get dearer) and we could prepare with essential services using what we have…but that means sharing and I don’t think people are good at sharing. I look at the people living on 400m blocks with the house covering what seems like 360m of it, or similar and they are basically consumers in boxes…near shops. Our place is 2km from town, and there are 2 dairies in cycling distance. We’re about 8kms from a bigger shopping area and 37 kms from the city and not everyone is that lucky and if they all wanted it, what would our world look like, could it even be done, doubt it. Even in horse and cart days, there was always town folk and country folk. We’d have to borrow/hire a horse from neighbours as there’s no room on our place for one… :shrug:

    #497009
    PinetreePinetree
    Member

    Jinja, I agree that there is no right answer for all, that each will need to play to their strengths. As you say not everyone will have land enough for keeping horse/livestock, labour will become more important in producing food once again, so transport options will not all need to be complicated.

    The electric bike option is a good one for personal transport, have you seen these

    http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com.au/

    They look like a big boys toy to me and yet their performance and range is impressive.

    Cheers

    Pinetree

    #497010
    roadwarriorroadwarrior
    Member

    I’m sorry to jump in at the end of a topic, but why on earth are we talking about electric bikes? Will normal pedal powered bikes stop working for some reason?

    I used to have a 4 stroke motor attached to my bike, thinking I was a cool, peak-oil aware dude ready to get 50km/500ml of petrol. Only thing was I was spending half my time fixing the damn thing. I ripped it off and just ride to work. I’d grown too soft and it was time to man-up.

    In a world short of (affordable) liquid fuels, only those with enough funds will be driving long distances. The rest of us will drive much shorter distances, dramatically cutting our discretionary driving, riding more and walking more. Those already with electric vehicles might use them, but the rest of us can’t even afford them now during a time when finances are good. There’s no way we’ll be able to afford them during a fuels crisis.

    Can you imagine how much a lithium battery is going to cost once demand soars? Plus the more complicated a system you have, the more prone it is to breaking. You can’t fight entropy, but you can at least try to delay it by having a robust transport system. This may mean an older vehicle with low miles; you are more likely to be able to fix old cars on your own. How are you going to (safely) fix an electric vehicle with an inverter malfunction? Or a modern computer controlled fuel injected performance car if the computer goes on the fritz.

    Transport systems of the future will have to be robust and reliable. An electric vehicle is neither of those things, plus they are expensive, plus they require regular replacement of their energy storage systems. A Prius, for example, will require its batteries to be replaced about every 8 years, negating any fuels savings you may have made during that time, assuming someone is still making the batteries (Toyota in Japan?) and you can afford them. Globalisation means that your car components may rely on several dozen countries manufacturing centres to keep up with maintenance. If one of those countries experiences a financial collapse, restricted electricity supply, or a nuclear meltdown (or all three), you may find your supply of parts has evaporated quite quickly.

    A simple Internal Combustion Engine (ICE), kept in good working order NOW, is more likely to serve you well into the future assuming you can afford to feed it. If you can’t, you may have to resort to car pooling (as a lot of countries already do on a huge scale), cycling, public transport, walking, or a combination of all the above.

    The caveat here is that you sill have a job or a destination to go to. Anyone in an industry that relies on discretionary spending may find their jobs go overnight. Why do you think such importance is placed on the Consumer Confidence Index? Want to go to the movies but don’t have enough money for the ticket or the petrol to get you there? Soon the movie theatre will go out of business because most other normal patrons are in the same situation as you. The pizza restaurant next door relies on movie patrons to stay financial, and now it has to close too. See where I’m going with this?

    In a major liquid fuel crisis where there is only a limited emergency supply of fuel, walking and bike riding will be much more common than anything else, including ICE’s electric vehicles and horses combined.

    In summary, the best thing you can do for future transport is keep your car in good working order (preferably one that isn’t too technologically advanced), put yourself in a job that is an essential service or doesn’t rely on discretionary spending, get fit, get out of debt, get walking, buy a decent bike and keep a few inner-tubes handy.

    I recently downgraded my modern sports-type car to a 2001 Toyota Hilux with very low km’s for its age. It has manual wind-up windows, side mirrors that you have to wind the window down to adjust, a relatively simple ICE and a very tough and reliable chassis/electrical/mechanical system. This car will probably go another 200,000 kms before I have major problems with it. Best of all it’s practical. I can actually transport things in it other than people.

    You don’t want an electric car, an electric bike, or a horse, (unless you already have them and can fix them, including the horse).

    #497011
    DennisDennis
    Member

    Agreed RW, A standard type motor car is far better than any of these new ones as far as repairs go. My sister just learn’t the hard way. She lost her car keys and because the ignition is coupled to the main computer it was going to be $1.800.00 to replace. A simple car you can just touch the wires together and your away.

    Also a lot of people don’t realize how easy it is to run another type of fuel. Like wood gas or methane plus lots of other stuff.

    Dennis

    #497012
    diannedianne
    Participant

    DB346 post=312629 wrote:

    Dianne,

    I think you are right and that we will most likely revert to a more ‘horse and cart’ based transport system in the end.

    Life will go on, I have no doubt, but you can not ignore the getting to the ‘horse and cart’ point. This is where my own doubts lay and why I am trying to live a bit more simply, self sufficient and community based.

    I so couldnt agree more, I cant wait to get to the horse/cart stage, but am terrorfived of what might happen in the inbewteen part. Ideally, I hope to have us set up to a point where we can provide for ourselves and family and maybe be an example for others to learn from once TSHTF and Im no longer the wierdo/doomsday hippie. 😉

    By the way, has anyone thought about a GOAT for short distance trasport. they can be trained to pull a small cart (used to collect/transport food or wood ect) you can teather them when at your desternation, less care is required for upkeep and there food needs not so demanding as horse. you also need so much less room to keep them.??

    #497013
    WazzaWazza
    Member

    Goats have a fair bit of pulling power for their size. As a rule of thumb, a goat can safely pull 1.5 times its weight, and some mature 4-5 year old wethers can weigh 90-100 kg. In early colonial times goats were called ‘the poor man’s horse’ and used extensively for transport. 4 mature wethers harnessed as a team can pull 550-600 kgs. This of course includes the weight of the harness and cart.

    #497014
    WombatWombat
    Member

    donkeynomad post=312259 wrote: Mules are great but they take very special handling. If you do ANYTHING wrong with them while training they can turn bad, and a bad mule is really BAD – but a good mule is terrific. You have to be trained to train and handle a mule before you should even think of getting one.

    Love the trailer/handcart! Got plans for how to build it or is it a build-as-you-go type?

    Nev

    #497015
    donkeynomaddonkeynomad
    Member

    Hi again,

    I drew up the plans for this trekking cart and got the local metal fabricator to build it, made a few adjustments and it did me for thousands of kms.

    BTW – it is illegal to use goats as harness animals in Australia. This law was brought into force in the 1970s (I think) because there was some cruelty involved with some goat racing at that time and the law is still in effect – though I doubt many police would know about it now to enforce it, any RSPCA people would though.

    Cheers,

    Rowan

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