November 15, 2006 at 6:10 am #281795forestMember
Herb, I didn’t see this thread earlier. (I must be losing my marbles)
I’m really pleased to hear of your son’s apprenticeship. Well done to him, and to you two. I can see why you’re proud of him and at this fork in the road, I bet he’s excited and proud, as well he should be. :clap:November 15, 2006 at 6:43 am #281796JanineMember
Congrats to you and your family, you must be very proud.
Hugs to you all.November 15, 2006 at 7:11 am #281797
Herbman – ditto to much of what others have said.
School certainly isn’t for everyone – in fact the more I know and hear and observe, the fewer people I believe it suits. I was homeschooled for years however I put my own children into school until I “saw the light” – and when I (and certainly they) couldn’t stand it any longer and withdrew them.
Schools, in my opinion, would be much better if they took away the “have to” – if they made it voluntary, opened classes up to all ages, had dynamic teachers who loved their subject and passing it on to others – you get the message! I have a vision of “schools” where a twelve year old could attend alongside a 65 year old learning advanced maths or whatever their passion is. School in it’s current form is oh-so-restrictive. And before anyone sends a thump my way, I know many teachers and I know there are some goodies, however they’re too few in numbers and are largely restricted by the system, imo; I’ve also worked as a teachers aide for years and been on numerous parent committees, so feel quite qualified to make such statements. 😉
So, your step son has been expelled. That sounds rather horrifying, doesn’t it, however just look at what he’s done in the short time he’s had since leaving! Wow! That has to say something about the character of the boy and perhaps those who thought him a rascal or a bad kid may need to large rethink…
Thanks for such an inspiring post, and keep up the good work in helping to shepherd him through.November 15, 2006 at 7:32 am #281798
…may need a large rethink.
Won’t bother correcting the remaining spelling etc errors – typing too fast without thinking too carefully – bad combination!
:uhoh:November 15, 2006 at 7:49 am #281799
Leanne – I don’t know about NSW, but here in Qld there’s courses called Access Yr 10. It’s aimed at people who aren’t in school. They do Yr 10 by doing 5 workbooks each for maths and english and then 1 each for science and SOSE (from memory). It’s all self-paced and competency based. I fully understand your worries. They reckon it takes about 70 hours, but you can do it as quickly or as slowly as you need to. The whole new earning or learning rules do s*ck the bigs ones though for parents in our situation (here in Qld anyway because if your kid isn’t in full-time work or education you get fined as a parent and it’s a heft wop – $550 first offence, $1,100 second offence)
Mumchook – I totally agree. Our experience with the education system here in Qld was terrible. I’ve been on the scene since DS was in Yr 2 and don’t get me started on what I think of teachers (not all – but many in his schools), administrators and principals. One example is when DS was diagnosed with a serious learning disability and we were not told until 18months later that (a) he had been tested and (b) he had been diagnosed. And at no time did anyone offer assistance (It’s NLD – non-verbal learning disorder – it affects maths). Not to mention the time there was a suggestion our son was the victim of a sexual offence and he was interviewed by the police as a possible victim and no-one informed us until 2 days later (and he was told by the school not to tell us). We were not the suspects – a neighbourhood thug was.
We tried to take him out of school already a year ago – but b/c he was under 16 they wouldn’t let him. The poor kid had to listen to almost another year of hearing how bad he was (he was even suspended at one point for an uncorroborated allegation of rape against a girl who subsequently appologised for lying about it to get back at him for breaking up with her best friend and that suspension was held against him in the final expulsion despite him being cleared) before they booted him anyway before he was 16yo.
DS says the best thing about the Get Set for Work program he’s been in is that they treat him like an adult and that they don’t treat him like a naughty kid. He is keen to work and comes from a hard-working background. I’m sure he’ll be fine.
To anyone with troubled teenagers … You’re not alone. It wasn’t until I read a few posts here that I realised that. Keep making do the best you can and keep looking for options that suit you and your kids – even if they aren’t the so-called “norm”.:tup:November 15, 2006 at 8:58 am #281800
Leanne, I intended to reply to your post as well and totally forgot. I’ll be typing quickly again, before the storm hits.
If I had my time over again and knew what I know now, I would have homeschooled mine right from the start (I didn’t at the time because their father was against it). I have three sons and two step sons, 15 to 30. Two did the HSC, two got out as quickly as they could (one at 15, the other to home school at 14), and the youngest – well we’re not sure what he’s going to do yet. He swings between wanting to travel extensively or become a teacher (to return to school “to make a difference and be kind to the little children” – his words), plus a few other things.
I’m telling you (and everyone) – your children don’t have to get the HSC, or even the School Certificate at Year 10! One of mine was accepted to TAFE as a homeschooler with a letter outlining his home study and phone call from mum to the Head Teacher. If you speak with TAFE admissions, you may get nowhere fast. You need to talk to the Head Teacher or above; homeschoolers are getting a very good reputation amongst TAFEs and Uni’s around Australia in much the same fashion as has occurred in America, where there are an estimated 2 million home schooled children, and rapidly growing.
I realise you do not homeschool, but the point I’m aiming for – eventually! 😉 – is that the people who matter are impressed by young people who are enthusiastic and self motivated, have a good work ethic and have a passion or strong desire to get on with learning. You find those traits amongst a lot of long term homeschoolers. Unfortunately, too many schooled students lose their enthusiasm and motivation and one of the reasons is that normal school cannot tailor a learning program to their interests and talents. There is a lot of wasted time in school as well; this is well documented by teachers who continue to be amazed and frustrated at how long it takes to control a class, and how little learning and/or teaching takes place in a 40 or 50 minute period.
If children want to go to university there are many alternate means for entry. I’ll explain that later or in a private message (PM) if you wish…
Your son could always attend TAFE to gain the equivalent of the School Certificate – called the CGVE here in NSW. He could then go on to complete the HSC at TAFE as well if he wanted, full or part time, alongside adults and other young folk who prefer to be treated like grown ups! At TAFE the HSC can be done in two OR EVEN ONE year 😮 – something we’re not told unless we go investigate ourselves. Or he could begin working, or enrol in another, occupational, course.
The same courses are available by distance education through OTEN (the correspondence side of TAFE). The Year 10 course is number 4190. You could take up to two years to complete it or whiz through in 6-8 months. The HSC can also be done through OTEN and offers a variety of subjects which may not be available at the local TAFE or even high school.
I think one thing we need to get over in our society is that education and learning doesn’t stop at the age of 18 and oneâ€™s life isn’t doomed to fail if one doesn’t do well in an HSC exam! Or go to uni. We grow up and simply continue learning.
I really relate to your comment that you love studying – but not at 15. I did not gain my HSC either but never had the desire or could see the need for it, and have since done many a course with various organisations and colleges. I also relate to the concept of lifelong learner.
I think if a young person absolutely knows what they want to do in their life (the person who from the age of 9 is determined to become a doctor, for instance) then the HSC/straight-into-Uni path can be a good or at least a fairly direct one.
I do rave on, don’t I?
Sorry to earbash you. I have contact with so many frustrated families and dispirited young people that I feel like yelling from the rooftops sometimes that there is another way! An attitude which doesn’t endear me to some of my teacher friends! :confused:
I’ll go now. Am sitting in the dark as I haven’t jumped up to switch the lights on.
PM me if you want to chat about options for your son…
:waves:November 17, 2006 at 2:48 am #281801platypussMember
I’m new to this forum too and am reading all the most recent posts.
Apprenticeships and “hands on” work have been greatly undervalued in recent years resulting in a crazy skills shortage.
In a post-carbon society anyone with “hands-on” knowledge will be prized. In Cuba farmers are more highly paid than engineers!
I hope more young people follow your step son’s example
(p.s – how do you get those faces to appear in your posts?)
P.P.November 28, 2006 at 12:56 am #281802toosusieMember
Hey that’s excellent news. Has anybody read the Robert Kyosaki ( Of Rich Dad Poor Dad fame) book “If you want to be rich and famous Don’t Go To School” or something like that I think the title is. It gives some really good reasons why school is the wrong place for many people if you just ignore all the capitalist stuff in it. He makes a lot of sense. I sold Avon for a while and there were a lot of mum’s doing that and home schooling because they were getting in trouble at school. The area manager commented one day on how much better behaved all the home schooled kids were than the school kids she came across. IMHO it’s not that the kids at school are bad it’s just that they don’t have as much put into them as homeschoolers do.Remember schools only cater for average 50% of people so if 50% do better elsewhere that is normal huh! One mum told me it took her daughter just 3 hours to do her year 12 schoolwork each day so she was able to get work experience at the same time. She passed well too. So nice to hear a proud dad so rewarded and see a good son excelling. Good on you Bazman and good luck. Just keep looking for alternatives until you find one that suits and never give up. There are no bad kids just, sad kids who become frustrated. Good luck all :tup:November 28, 2006 at 10:22 am #281803toosusieMember
SORRY A mean herbman DOH:uhoh:November 28, 2006 at 7:21 pm #281804
Well he’s been at work a week today. Apparently it’s tiring (der freddo), but his mum and I wouldn’t understand – 😆 😆 . He gets his first pay tomorrow so that will be a milestone for him. I wonder what an apprentice earns these days … Hopefully a little more than the $120 a week I earned in my first year – but prolly not much more … hehe.
I’ve never seen the young bloke this quiet ever! He’s not even staying up until 2am anymore 😆 … It’s so funny to watch … 😆November 28, 2006 at 8:10 pm #281805edensgateMember
Interesting hey! Hope he’s settling in and enjoying himself! 😀February 16, 2007 at 7:07 am #281806
Just an update – It’s almost been 3 months and the young bloke is still at his job. He works from 6am-3pm every day and many weekends they ask him to work overtime from 6am-11am. The money’s really good – $318/wk before tax + $20 / hr flat rate overtime. He spent some of his pay on tools and a tool box, saves $150/wk automatically and pays his $20 board + $10 petrol every week without complaining. And he pays his share of the phone bill too (all the calls to his mates who only have mobile phone numbers).
He comes home filthy but he’s not as tired as he was to start out with. We’re learning how many swear words he can fit in one sentence (not the best influence he could get) and he’s found out that when men talk about their *pottymouths* all day long it gets boring (his typically teenage *pottymouth* talk has reduced greatly).
He was always a handful (obviously because he got expelled from school), but the past 3 months have seen such a change that those who knew him as a “bad kid” would not recognise him – and neither does he give them the time of day anymore.
Funniest thing I’ve noticed is that he’s gone from “the boy you don’t bring home to mum” to “that nice boy who’s got his act together and has a good job” 😆 😆 … I never thought I’d see the day :tup:
Am still a proud dad :shy:February 16, 2007 at 7:52 am #281807RubyglowMember
That’s such a nice story Herbman! I have three teenagers (although one has just turned the big 20 so she doesn’t count anymore). I can remember not so long ago when she was so “rebellious, difficult,threw tantrums all the time and was an absolute pain in the bottom”. But now……..she is independent, working full time hours in the Aged care industry, has just gained a $12,000 scholarship to study as an EEN (nurse) and is absolutely amazing with budgeting! And is such a caring, lovely person. We just found out (not supposed to know……shhh) that she just missed out on student of the year…..which she (and we were “so” proud of). I can remember chasing her through the house….just a few short years ago…..as she was sneaking out of the house at night and we were worried sick! Ahhh, how things change. Now we just have two “boys” to get through those difficult times:| But, they are great people….just normal teenagers I suppose.
I think that if we have patience, support them through their difficult times and try to see the best in our kid’s then they turn out to be great people.
I loved your story, it bought tears to my eyes. And I think that it made me feel more normal as a lot of time’s you don’t know or see what others go through.
RubyFebruary 16, 2007 at 9:46 pm #281808
Oh Herbman, that was soooo good to read. Thanks for giving us an update.
And Ruby, thank you also…. that’s simply terrific about your daughter!
I “thank my lucky stars” that none of our children have caused us serious grief – although there have been some dramas along the way, it wasn’t because of them being a problem themselves, if you know what I mean – however I have a number of friends and acquaintences who must struggle to get through their days or lose a lot of sleep worrying about their children.
It’s so sad to see children go off the rails and have no-one who cares about them to guide them through, to reach the other side, so to speak.
So it’s nice to hear some success stories, that’s for sure.February 16, 2007 at 9:59 pm #281809
Ruby, Thankyou for sharing. I too take comfort in hearing other “normal” people have struggles with their kids.
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