January 20, 2012 at 1:22 pm #490331
Totally agree Greth. It would take me a days ride to reach Armidale. Paying for our rates will become our only problem. The government says if you can’t afford to pay your rates, sell your home. Good one! Then what? With our home we are totally self-sufficient except for making money. They expect us to then use our money to pay rent in town!? Purchase all our food. How long is that going to last, even supposing I did not go absolutely barmy living in town! No, this is not an answere.
Maybe if things get that bad we can pool our resources. Not sure how though. Our family is growing, not much room for outsiders. Better for us if it all hits the fan, no local government control. On our own we can survive.
Keith.January 20, 2012 at 1:28 pm #490332BobbeeMember
mauzi post=336357 wrote: My goodness, humanity survived for millions of years without fuel…yes it will require life changes…in my opinion for the better anyway, and yes there will be a time of adjustment and most likely violence in certain sectors, but my hope is for an eventual better world then the one we currently live in. We, as a race, presently are in such a state of self destruction it will very likely take something of this magnitude to get our heads straight.
In regards to fuel and transport there is not a “one size fits all” answer. Many modes of getting around could be possible including walking (as used to be done), handcarts, bicycles if you live in a town, horses, horse and carts, charcoal burning vehicles (which were used during the 2nd world war, and are still used in NZ), people can produce ethanol, bio diesel. The plans for building a charcoal burner are available on the web, alcohol is a reflux still (purchasable in any home brew shop) and bio diesel requires a crushing plant (also available on the web).
In regards to bio diesel, if one feels they want to drive some sort of vehicle or power plant, or tractor the bio diesel is not just a fuel but the cake left over from the crushed seeds can be fed to animals, the waste plant used within the composting and so forth. This would not be a one person operation but more of a community action. Most likely you could make your own caustic from lye.
Now, looking from today’s consciousness, you could say all of the above is not possible, but we would not be looking from today’s consciousness, that is whole point, but from one of community co operation, village mentality including growing food and people, as they have done for millions of years, useing their personal leanings and skills to fit within that picture. This is not an individual doing everything picture..although for a while it would be advisable to have as many skills as possible.
Humanity, in my opinion, is at its best in adversity and there always has been those within the picture that take the easy option of crime…nothing new there.
We see the picture from Western eyes, but currently in the world (in parts of every continent) there are people who will hardly even notice the change and who already live, to some degree, without the “things” we call normal. It can be done, it is already being done in other parts of the world…we are the slow ones.
Thank you Mauzi, very well said. :clap: :clap: :clap:
:hug: :hug: :hug:January 20, 2012 at 2:01 pm #490333
dianne post=336375 wrote:
. If this option fails, i will resort to stealing to keep my family alive, but id steal a sheep, not a L of milk.
just wondering how to steal a sheep is better than the milk?? to start, to steal is to steal, but to steal the sheep, you are stealing from someone and their family/kids as oposed to a supermarket. it is this thinking that it is alright to steal from others which is going to be part of the problem. also what are you going to do with a whole sheep?? if you are living next to a stream you have no way to keep the extra meat, as well as no way to deal with all the extra bits you can get from it. Would it not be better to try and work out some type of trade with this person whom owns that sheep? I know I would rather exchange some food for labour on my property rather than someone stealing food out of my childrens mouths.
Perhaps Dianne means “if push came to shove”. I think most of us here would sooner talk first. Certainly I would prefere someone approached me first, in which case I would gladly help if I could.
But there is nothing wrong with sheep’s milk, and there are ways of preserving foods. Meat can be dried & kept as is, or it can be turned into pemmican. SEE ON MY BLOG HERE: http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/01/pioneer-handbooks-how-explorers-made.htmlJanuary 20, 2012 at 2:01 pm #490334
Right, i vote we start our own society now, avoid any problems when TSHTF? I cant provide for my family all on my own, our efforts at stockpilling are pitiful when you think about the grand scheme, being that we may have supplies for 4 months, then what? Ive been reading RW thread, good idea BTW, except, with 8 people thats 140 tins for one meal a day for a month…
Anyone else feel we should be more pro-active in creating the right system now, before its too late?January 20, 2012 at 2:08 pm #490335
crystal post=336382 wrote: Right, i vote we start our own society now, avoid any problems when TSHTF? I cant provide for my family all on my own, our efforts at stockpilling are pitiful when you think about the grand scheme, being that we may have supplies for 4 months, then what? Ive been reading RW thread, good idea BTW, except, with 8 people thats 140 tins for one meal a day for a month…
Anyone else feel we should be more pro-active in creating the right system now, before its too late?
Totally agree, and we(my family & friends)have already done so & are totally ready. May I respectfully suggest you join our group on here: Primitive Skills & Self-Reliance. Ask questions & get answers. Hopefully the ones you want!
Regards, Keith.January 20, 2012 at 2:09 pm #490336
Oh, yes, i meant if it was do-or-die! Not that id just wander off for fun. Also, my vision of the post-EOTW scenario has much less people, and a lot of ‘abandoned’ stuff. So if i ‘found’ a bunch of sheep wandering around, id take one. Also, sheep can provide wool, milk and eventually meat, winning combo of a multitasking animal if you ask me 😉
Its all in theory for me anyway… I have many ideas as to what id do depending onthe situation and im overwhelmed with the multitude of scenarios. How can i possibly be prepared for anything?January 20, 2012 at 2:11 pm #490337GrethMember
WE have already created our own society, this is where you are.
The council are being cool and froody regarding rates, we are way behind but they happy to give us time.
After all, they dont give us sealed roads, water, electricity, sewage, public transport..January 20, 2012 at 2:12 pm #490338calliecatParticipant
if you get behind here, they charge interestJanuary 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm #490339
Right, Im too overwhelmed! I dont knwo where to start. I have the problem where we ‘need’ more than we can supply. Land..? We cant afford it… where do we go? Were not behind in anything but we dont make enough to save to buy land. then theres a house etc… I’ll head over to the group and ask my questions there!January 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm #490340
crystal post=336384 wrote: Oh, yes, i meant if it was do-or-die! Not that id just wander off for fun. Also, my vision of the post-EOTW scenario has much less people, and a lot of ‘abandoned’ stuff. So if i ‘found’ a bunch of sheep wandering around, id take one. Also, sheep can provide wool, milk and eventually meat, winning combo of a multitasking animal if you ask me 😉
Its all in theory for me anyway… I have many ideas as to what id do depending onthe situation and im overwhelmed with the multitude of scenarios. How can i possibly be prepared for anything?
Depends on your situation I guess Crystal, but we are prepared for everything bar a nuclear explosion. I am not prepared to spend our hard earned money on constructing a shelter, when afterwards life would be miserable in the extreme, and short!January 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm #490341owlbrudderMember
We are facing times never seen before in human history: Global Financial Crisis 2, Peak Oil, Global Warming and Overpopulation. All of our miseries are man-made, so it is no use blaming Mother Nature or your favourite deity for being asleep on the job.
Population growth means market growth, which means economic growth for those at the top of the food chain. Greed has fuelled calls for economic growth and greed has fuelled the financial crises. Greed-induced growth is powered by fossil fuels, which are allowing us to change our atmosphere into one which causes global warming. At the very time when we might need more cheap energy to help undo what we have done, fossil fuels are becoming scarcer. We have only ourselves to blame.
One way I see it panning out is this. [ol]
[li]The GFC2 will cause widespread unemployment in Europe and America, which will result in loss of market for China’s exports. China’s economy will flatten out as a response, although they have such a huge internal market, it is difficult to foresee them going into recession. Australia, dependent upon exports to China, will go into recession, or more likely into depression.[/li] [li]World wide slowing of growth will reduce demand for fossil fuels, but there will continue to be strong demand for oil, to power what is left of the global economy. Certain infrastructure services such as public transport and electricity generation will require a mobile workforce, so petrol and diesel supplies will be maintained, but widespread unemployment will see fewer consumer miles driven and reduced profits for fuel companies. How sad.[/li] [li]Continuing population growth will maintain upward pressure on resources at a time that they are becoming more expensive. Growth in China and India will absorb the crude oil not needed by the stalled economies elsewhere, so overall demand for oil will continue on a growth trajectory.[/li] [li]Oil supplies are already plateauing, so demand will exceed supply, as we have long known will occur. Oil products will become more expensive and escalating conflicts are likely over oil security. The USA, even in depression, will not let go of its standard of living without a fight.[/li] [li]In Australia, we will see a relentless increase in the price of oil products. Driving a private vehicle will become a luxury. Coal and gas exploitation will become our energy model for electricity generation. The tyranny of distance will start hitting rural and regional areas, as transport costs spiral upwards. Air travel will become the province of the rich and powerful.[/li] [li]Without economic growth, interest payments on sovereign debt will become unsupportable and economies will collapse. We see this already in Greece, which is expected to default on its loans in the near future. Collapsed economies will be harder to govern and civil disturbance will increase.[/li] [li]As all this is playing out, we will still be pumping masses of CO2 into the atmosphere. The global climate will continue to warm and extreme weather events will become normal: worse and more frequent droughts, fires, floods, tornadoes, cyclones. Even summer storms and winter blizzards will become worse, as the amount of water vapour in the air increases with heat.[/li] [li]Widespread famines will occur, as regional climates become less hospitable to traditional farming. At the same time, fertilisers made from crude oil will become more expensive, so food production will become more expensive.[/li] [li]Diseases resistant to antibiotics will increase, sweeping through the Western world just as easily as the Third. At the same time, access to health care will become increasingly expensive in all countries. Diseases such as Malaria and Tb will become commonplace in the West.[/li] [li]All this time, world population is increasing, the climate is becoming more inhospitable, sea level is slowly rising and food production is stalling, or going backwards. International conflicts will arise as whole populations are forced to migrate from their traditional lands. Wars will be fought over the basic resources of water, food and energy.[/li] [li]At some point, world population will collapse. The coming Earth biosphere will be unable to support even our existing population, let alone the 10 billion projected by the UN around 2050. Forget cars, forget air conditioning, forget Medicare: we will be in a battle for survival and nature will do what she has always done. Natural selection will choose those who are resistant to disease, are sound of wind and limb and able to fend for themselves.[/li]
[/ol]For those of an imaginative mind, it might be amusing to read the Book of Revelation in the Christian Bible and see how well it fits. Portents of doom are always good to read just before bedtime, kiddies.January 20, 2012 at 4:24 pm #490342
Yes, I would say you have it about right.January 20, 2012 at 4:53 pm #490343
I dont know… its all too much for a saturday! LOL! I still wonder if it will be worth surviving? You all seem better suited to a much simpler life post SHTF days than i am.January 20, 2012 at 5:11 pm #490344GrethMember
Yeah many of us are better equipped for self sufficiency, we have been thinking about this awhile.
The good news is that the crisis isnt starting today (unless I missed something on the news)
Focus on: making yourself independent of the banks and the supermarkets.Get out of any debt, and think about producing some of your own food, learn techniques for cleaning and living that dont require the multinationals to help you.Its a lovely feeling when you can shrug at problems and say ‘that doesnt bother me” we have own eggs, own beef and lambo and pork, own potatoes and tomatoes and cucs and herbs.
As we do on solar power and rainwater, home grown veg and moocows!January 20, 2012 at 5:20 pm #490345
Im struggling to focus, i get an idea and then worry… I can crochet, brilliant, endless supply of scarves, hats blankets etc. Then i wonder, where will i get the yarn?? do i need to prepare for that too? Do i need to learn to shear a sheep and spin yarn? on top of learning to grow and grind wheat and dispatch a cow for meat..? Do you see what i mean. The preparation list could go on forever! And ill be forever stressed that ‘Im Not Prepared’!
I’ll continue my ranting bit in the group, save putting it here.
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