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I have an ethical dilemma..

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    In about 10 to 15 years or so into the future, you and your ex and your respective partners will probably all be together every time one of your grandchildren has a birthday etc. I would try to keep this as nice as possible Lolly, bearing in mind that the oldest two are old enough to say that they don’t wish to see their father. Whether he sees them or not, he still has to pay child support – it’s not optional. I would attend the first mediation session without parents-in-law I think. You have the option of more sessions I believe?

    I went through some shocking years with my ex (same sort of stuff) and now we can be in the same room together with the grandchildren and everything is as nice as pie. Who ever would have thought?


    I feel for your 9 year old, Lolly, as she won’t have the backup of her sisters when she’s with her father… Especially if she doesn’t want to go there , he might take exception to it…

    As two of your girs are a bit older and definitley don’t want to go there I would be showing them that they should expect more from the main people in their lives. That they should be able to expect and get respect from people who are responsible for them… I’m also thinking about their own future relationships and showing them that sometimes you just have to step up and go for what is right….

    I’d ask the grandparents, they can say no if they want too… It’s up to them to decide…

    I hope it goes well for you and your girls…. :hug: (and Ray too… :tup: )

    sewing ladysewing lady

    Yes, ask the grandparents. It is so hard for the girls to be in this situation and you too.

    I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I will keep you in my heart.



    It seems to me that your only dilemma is how to protect your children and give them a good life. It is his parents who will be required to make an ethical choice and from the sounds of it, they will choose their grandparents. As a mother, you must be strong for your children and put aside any doubts about the ‘rights and wrong’s’ of what you are asking of others. If they are uncomfortable with what you are asking for they can say ‘no’.

    when dealing with someone who is so obsessed with their own ‘rightness’ when patently their behaviour is wrong, you should never, under any circumstance give them prior warning of your intentions. He would not do you that courtesy. So you are not obliged to offer it to him.

    Take care of yourself and your family and obtain advice. It sounds to me that you should also be suggesting, through the mediation process, that your ex would benefit from anger management training as he does not seem (from what you are saying) to have the ability to deal with the challenges that life throws up, without resorting to verbal and/or physical violence. And your children deserve better than that.:hug:


    Option 2 for me too – are there 2 actions you are pursuing (limit his access to the children (supervised or none at all) and increase in maintenance – if these are separate I would pursue the access first and then deal with the maintenance after that. I don’t know the procedures involved but I would try to avoid muddying the water. He is probably going to argue that this is just about money – so you might need think about ‘putting a fence around’ the access issue first. The finance might raise its head anyway – but let others put it on the table in this first round.


    tough call lolly,

    use his parents solong as you talk with them first and see that they are realy on your side and not his, i dunno will his new partener get involved?

    having said that from what you say this bloke is never going to be conciliatory or friendly for that, so as tough as the call might be it may be time to as much as possible move on in that sense. sounds like it won’t be long before it is only one child he needs to support, even now the other 2 are old enough to decide, might be they need to get some paid work while they study to help the household budget?

    and i reckon ok do mediation, not sure it actually ever works? but no more littigation that is only money for lawyers. good money after bad.

    probably need to encompass some value changing?

    guess his new partener might get fore armed and fore warned.



    I don’t know about in Vic but here in SA a child can decide to go to who ever they want to at 8.

    I would be getting your kids to phys and to the doctors as what he is doing is “ABUSE”

    mental abuse cannot be seen but it is more damaging then any.

    It can take years to come out and by then its sometimes too late to help the kids.

    Take who you need along even the pope if needed. This bully can’t get away with the abuse anymore than he is now and hitting on his parents isn’t on.

    My sons X has abused her 2 nd son for the last time she has had him removed from her care and given to her brother. Even though her SIL was involved with the taking of bubs I said I will write a letter to help him but not his wife get full custody of him. He’s 14years old and has been telling the welfare what she is like and how many times shes wiped out on drugs and the like. SO you can see why we don’t let bubs out of our site


    I have been in exactly the position you’re in! Go to the mediation, it is truly the best way of doing things, but LAWYER up before you go! Speak to his parents as well, and ask them their advice, but without asking them to back you. This is for the future, as the last thing you will need is a turnabout in the situation, a rekindling of their relationship with their son, and another round of abuse from another set of lips.

    Not 100% sure, but I think a child of 10 can decide if they want to visit or not? and as far as the maintenance goes, if you don’t follow through with the mediation, then they will look at forceably interacting within your life and his, and this could antagonise the situation even more. Something you really don’t want either.

    So, as it was suggested, tell him nothing at all, don’t be nice, don’t be anything…and if you have to be something, then be indifferent! Niceness on your part, builds suspicion in the ex partner. You just want things peaceful and amicable, but if you haven’t had it before, then it’s never going to happen. My ex and I don’t speak at all, and haven’t done for years now. My daughter tried to have a relationship with her father, until he tried to punch her for “looking and being Just Like your Mother!” He was very into mind games and control, physical abuse to back it up and monetary abuse to stop you in your tracks.

    Give your daughters a huge hug from me, I can sympathise with what they are going through. If you think it’s hit the youngest one yet, then you may be mistaken, because she will probably still be trying to have the relationship with her dad, or at least wanting it. The older two will have seen his colours and are big enough to work it out now, that it’s probably going to be harder to have the relationship than not have it.

    Good luck with it all. Very sad really for everyone, but unfortunately, thats how life is sometimes. My heart goes out to you :kiss1:


    my thoughts and prayers are with you on this hard situation. i agree with option #2 as well. and dont give him any opportunity to use your nice nature against u ( he will because by the sounds of it he is a control freak).

    think of your kids . the emotional scarring could last years and u cant see that as easily as physical abuse. Be as protective of your kids as the law allows.

    blessings be with u.



    Lolly I really feel for you! :hug:

    I have to agree, this guy is a bad egg, and short of finding Jesus, he’s never going to change. Accept the fact that however much you may want to handle things “decently”, it’s very unlikely your relationship will ever be amicable, so don’t waste your energies there. Try to be business-like about it and shield yourself emotionally. The best you can hope for is to maintain your own dignity through these trials.

    Talk to the grandparents and a lawyer, and I’d suggest a good counsellor/chaplaincy for the 9-year-old. She must be hurting, poor wee thing.

    Good luck! :hug:


    Option 2 🙂 Goodluck. Take all of the support you can get. It always helps to have people around who understand the situation.

    Best wishes and I hope you can sort this out with as little turmoil as possible. You seem to be a strong and reasonable person. You can do this 🙂

    mary dollmary doll


    just wanted to offer you my support in any way i can. its a hard road bringing up kids by yourself. I know you will make the right decision for your family… have the support of so many here at als.




    :hug: to you and the girls. My advice is to make sure ALL your daughters can talk to someone if they need it. My parents divorced when I was 16 – I am now 24 and no longer talking to my dad because he has hurt me so much emotionally by rejecting me. After he and mum split I tried to continue building a relationship with him but his latest girlfriend was always number one priority and having me around was a real ‘inconvenience’.

    Even if your older girls seem ok and say they dont want to see him, from my own personal experience I am pretty sure they are still hurting inside. After all, we all just want our parents to love us even if we dont like them much!!!!


    Hello….I have been through a similar thing with my exhusband. I can assure you, trying to remain amicable with some ex partners is next to impossible, especially if they are autocratic control-freaks, who don’t fill out their real income on the CSA forms. The older girls are able to choose which parent they would like to be with and the youngest, well a decision may have to be reached through legal means. Time to put emotions aside (hard, I know) and get some advice (Women’s Legal Service could probably put you in the right direction), contact CSA and Centrelink if necessary and just get down to business. I am not sure involving the grandparents is a good idea….but you of course are the best judge of that.

    Good luck, try not to stress too much and watch the children carefully….both my sons were affected by our divorce….we divorced when my youngest was 2. The psychological effects really kicked in with my sons when they reached their teens. My youngest boy has been the most affected, the minimal contact he has had with his father over the years always affected him adversely. More recently (he’s 16) he has formulated opinions about his father that are at the least “unflattering” and at most “heartbreaking”. He is getting some counselling through an “Adolescent Friendly” GP’s office. I wish you all the best….


    Forgot to say one thing. Better tell you just in case Lolly.

    My step-daughter is going through mediation at the moment and the father of her child is 21 years old and asked to have his mother present at the mediation meeting. My step-daughter was asked via telephone (by the mediator) if she wished to give permission for the mother to be present, so it seems that if you wanted your ex-husband’s parents at the mediation meeting, your ex-husband could be asked the same thing and may refuse their presence. :shrug:

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