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    Bullseye post=350556 wrote: ERoEI again… :whistle: 🙂

    Here’s a question. I know the answer to this, have mentioned it a few times, it’s easily obtainable from the net, the answer is also within this forum.

    What forms of “energy invested” or “energy expended” are not to be used in calculating ERoEI?

    No takers on answering that question… :whistle:

    The forms of “energy invested” or “energy expended” not used are renewables…


    Audi e-gas project is milestone for sustainable mobility

    “The world’s first industrial plant for generating synthetic methane (e-gas) from CO2 and renewable electricity is under construction in Werlte, Germany.”

    The plant will use waste CO2 from another industrial plant and solar energy to not only produce synthetic methane gas, also, hydrogen gas through electrolysis from solar energy.

    More info at this url.


    Thin Film Solar Cells: New World Record for Solar Cell Efficiency

    Jan. 18, 2013 — In a remarkable feat, scientists at Empa, the Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Science and Technology, have developed thin film solar cells on flexible polymer foils with a new record efficiency of 20.4% for converting sunlight into electricity. The cells are based on CIGS semiconducting material (copper indium gallium (di)selenide) known for its potential to provide cost-effective solar electricity. The technology is currently awaiting scale-up for industrial applications.


    Wow x 2


    Hyundai first to start mass production of fuel cell vehicles

    A white ix35 fuel cell car vehicle rolled off the production line at Hyundai’s Ulsan manufacturing plant today, as Korean carmaker becomes the first in the world to begin assembly-line production of a fuel cell model.

    Based on the ix35 compact SUV, the new fuel cell model will be leased to fleets across Europe with deliveries to customers now ready to begin.

    The first ix35 off the production line, will be one of 17 destined for fleet customers in the city of Copenhagen, Denmark and Skåne, Sweden. The Danish capital, as part of its initiative to be carbon-free by 2025, will be supplied with 15 ix35 fuel cell vehicles for fleet use, as part of an agreement announced last September. Two ix35 fuel cell vehicles will be supplied to Skåne, Sweden too.

    “With the ix35 fuel cell vehicle, Hyundai is leading the way into the zero-emissions future,” Hyundai Motor Vice Chairman, Eok Jo Kim said at the ceremony today. “The ix35 fuel cell is the most eco-friendly vehicle in the auto industry and proves that hydrogen fuel cell technology in daily driving is no longer a dream.”

    “Assembly-line production of fuel cell vehicles marks a crucial milestone in the history of the automobile industry not just in Korea, but throughout the world,” Mang Woo Park, mayor of Ulsan city, said in his congratulatory message. “By supplying more hydrogen refuelling stations to support the eco-friendly fuel cell vehicles produced, we will make Ulsan the landmark for eco-friendly automobiles.”

    1,000 fuel cell vehicles by 2015

    Hyundai plans to build 1,000 ix35 fuel cell vehicles by 2015 for lease to public and private fleets, primarily in Europe, where the EU has established a hydrogen road map and initiated construction of hydrogen fuelling stations.

    It is hoped that this will eventually lead to the mass market introduction of hydrogen-fuelled vehicles for private buyers too. The Korean brand projects that by 2015, lower vehicle production cost and a further developed hydrogen infrastructure will enable it to begin consumer retail sales.

    The carmaker’s first fuel cell model is fitted with a 5.6 kg, 700 bar compressed hydrogen storage tank, a 24kW battery and a 100 kW fuel cell system. The fuel cell stack converts hydrogen into electricity to drive the model’s wheels, with the only emission pure water vapour.

    Unlike a battery electric model, the car boasts a driving range equivalent to petrol engine model and a refuelling time of just a few minutes. It achieves 369 miles per full tank of hydrogen, a top speed of 100mph and a 0-62mph time of 12.5 seconds.

    This first ix35 fuel cell vehicle will be displayed at the 2013 Geneva Motor Show, which opens March 5, 2013.


    Breakthrough in Hydrogen Fuel Production Could Revolutionize Alternative Energy Market

    Apr. 3, 2013 — A team of Virginia Tech researchers has discovered a way to extract large quantities of hydrogen from any plant, a breakthrough that has the potential to bring a low-cost, environmentally friendly fuel source to the world.

    “Our new process could help end our dependence on fossil fuels,” said Y.H. Percival Zhang, an associate professor of biological systems engineering in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences and the College of Engineering. “Hydrogen is one of the most important biofuels of the future.”

    Zhang and his team have succeeded in using xylose, the most abundant simple plant sugar, to produce a large quantity of hydrogen that previously was attainable only in theory. Zhang’s method can be performed using any source of biomass.

    The discovery is a featured editor’s choice in an online version of the chemistry journal Angewandte Chemie, International Edition.

    This new environmentally friendly method of producing hydrogen utilizes renewable natural resources, releases almost no zero greenhouse gasses, and does not require costly or heavy metals. Previous methods to produce hydrogen are expensive and create greenhouse gases.

    The U.S. Department of Energy says that hydrogen fuel has the potential to dramatically reduce reliance of fossil fuels and automobile manufactures are aggressively trying to develop vehicles that run on hydrogen fuel cells. Unlike gas-powered engines that spew out pollutants, the only byproduct of hydrogen fuel is water. Zhang’s discovery opens the door to an inexpensive, renewable source of hydrogen.

    Jonathan R. Mielenz, group leader of the bioscience and technology biosciences division at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, who is familiar with Zhang’s work but not affiliated with this project, said this discovery has the potential to have a major impact on alternative energy production.

    “The key to this exciting development is that Zhang is using the second most prevalent sugar in plants to produce this hydrogen,” he said. “This amounts to a significant additional benefit to hydrogen production and it reduces the overall cost of producing hydrogen from biomass.”

    Mielenz said Zhang’s process could find its way to the marketplace as quickly as three years if the technology is available. Zhang said when it does become commercially available, it has the possibility of making an enormous impact.

    “The potential for profit and environmental benefits are why so many automobile, oil, and energy companies are working on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles as the transportation of the future,” Zhang said. “Many people believe we will enter the hydrogen economy soon, with a market capacity of at least $1 trillion in the United States alone.”

    Obstacles to commercial production of hydrogen gas from biomass previously included the high cost of the processes used and the relatively low quantity of the end product.

    But Zhang thinks he has found the answers to those problems.

    For seven years, Zhang’s team has been focused on finding non-traditional ways to produce high-yield hydrogen at low cost, specifically researching enzyme combinations, discovering novel enzymes, and engineering enzymes with desirable properties.

    The team liberates the high-purity hydrogen under mild reaction conditions at 122 degree Fahrenheit and normal atmospheric pressure. The biocatalysts used to release the hydrogen are a group of enzymes artificially isolated from different microorganisms that thrive at extreme temperatures, some of which could grow at around the boiling point of water.

    The researchers chose to use xylose, which comprises as much as 30 percent of plant cell walls. Despite its abundance, the use of xylose for releasing hydrogen has been limited. The natural or engineered microorganisms that most scientists use in their experiments cannot produce hydrogen in high yield because these microorganisms grow and reproduce instead of splitting water molecules to yield pure hydrogen.

    To liberate the hydrogen, Virginia Tech scientists separated a number of enzymes from their native microorganisms to create a customized enzyme cocktail that does not occur in nature. The enzymes, when combined with xylose and a polyphosphate, liberate the unprecedentedly high volume of hydrogen from xylose, resulting in the production of about three times as much hydrogen as other hydrogen-producing microorganisms.

    The energy stored in xylose splits water molecules, yielding high-purity hydrogen that can be directly utilized by proton-exchange membrane fuel cells. Even more appealing, this reaction occurs at low temperatures, generating hydrogen energy that is greater than the chemical energy stored in xylose and the polyphosphate. This results in an energy efficiency of more than 100 percent — a net energy gain. That means that low-temperature waste heat can be used to produce high-quality chemical energy hydrogen for the first time. Other processes that convert sugar into biofuels such as ethanol and butanol always have energy efficiencies of less than 100 percent, resulting in an energy penalty.

    In his previous research, Zhang used enzymes to produce hydrogen from starch, but the reaction required a food source that made the process too costly for mass production.

    The commercial market for hydrogen gas is now around $100 billion for hydrogen produced from natural gas, which is expensive to manufacture and generates a large amount of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide. Industry most often uses hydrogen to manufacture ammonia for fertilizers and to refine petrochemicals, but an inexpensive, plentiful green hydrogen source can rapidly change that market.

    “It really doesn’t make sense to use non-renewable natural resources to produce hydrogen,” Zhang said. “We think this discovery is a game-changer in the world of alternative energy.”


    Is Iron the New Platinum?

    Is iron the new platinum? Two new research studies seem to think so. Now, I’ve talked about iron many times over the years as one of the platinum-free elements in fuel cells and during electrolysis to produce hydrogen.

    Two different research teams from the Canada and the U. S. have conducted independent research on low cost iron-centered fuel cells and hydrogen production methods.

    Two researchers from the University of Calgary, Curtis Berlinguette and Simon Trudel, have published a paper outlining their findings.

    According to MIT Technology Review, “They have patented their production method and have formed a company called FireWater Fuel which plans to have a product available as early as next year. The goal is to make an electrolyzer—a device that splits water to make hydrogen and oxygen fuels—that is affordable enough for businesses and consumers.

    Their invention is making catalysts from a combination of metals compounds that use iron, cobalt, and nickel. The process, which treats metal compounds or oxides with light, doesn’t require high temperatures.”

    But, wait. There’s more. Researchers at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) have created an iron-based catalyst in a fuel cell that splits hydrogen in order to create electricity.

    According to PNNL, “Bullock and his PNNL colleagues, chemists Tianbiao ‘Leo’ Liu and Dan DuBois, have taken inspiration for their iron-wielding catalyst from a hydrogenase. First Liu created several potential molecules for the team to test. Then, with the best-working molecule up to that point, they determined and tweaked the shape and the internal electronic forces to make additional improvements … It is the first iron-based catalyst that converts hydrogen directly to electricity. The result moves chemists and engineers one step closer to widely affordable fuel cells.”

    In order for hydrogen cars to take off in the marketplace, we need cheaper fuel cells and cheap methods to produce hydrogen for those fuel cells. The scientists and engineers in Calgary and at PNNL are using iron to solve both problems.


    Australia’s University of Queensland (UQ) hydrogen innovation wins joint investment from Government, French multinational

    SOURCE :

    French multi-national Air Liquide and the Australian Government’s Southern Cross Renewable Energy Fund have invested more than A$9 million in hydrogen storage technology developed by Australia’s University of Queensland (UQ).

    They invested A$9.25 million in Hydrexia, a UQ spin-off company, which holds the hydrogen storage process developed by UQ researchers Professor Arne Dahle and Associate Professor Kazuhiro Nogita.

    The pair found that a new magnesium alloy, hydride, could absorb hydrogen much like a sponge absorbs water, developing a process far cheaper than existing ones.

    The commercial potential of the research led the university’s commercialisation arm, UniQuest, to create Hydrexia Pty Ltd in 2006.

    “We believe that Hydrexia’s alloy – hydride –makes possible the production of high density and high-performance hydrogen storage systems at a competitive price compared to existing compressed gas technologies,” Hydrexia Chief Executive Officer Jeffrey Ng said in a statement.

    The Australian Government has vowed to raise the nation’s innovation profile by committing funds to bringing more developments to market and by establishing innovation precincts aimed at becoming research and development centres of excellence.

    Air Liquide is a French company with 50,000 employees in 80 countries. It has traditionally been an industrial gas supplier but has recently diversified into health and environmental businesses.

    The Southern Cross Renewable Energy Fund is a $200 million, 13-year co-investment arrangement by the Australian Government, Southern Cross Venture Partners (SXVP) and Softbank China Venture Capital (SBCVC). The Australian Government’s commitment of $100 million has been matched equally with private sector investment from SBCVC. The fund invests in Australian clean energy companies.’s-university-of-queensland-uq-hydrogen-innovation-wins-joint-investment-from-government-french-multinational/


    Thanks for keeping us up to date Bullseye. I’m to lazy to keep track for myself.




    Scientists Develop CO2 Sequestration Technique

    May 28, 2013 — Lawrence Livermore scientists have discovered and demonstrated a new technique to remove and store atmospheric carbon dioxide while generating carbon-negative hydrogen and producing alkalinity, which can be used to offset ocean acidification.

    The team demonstrated, at a laboratory scale, a system that uses the acidity normally produced in saline water electrolysis to accelerate silicate mineral dissolution while producing hydrogen fuel and other gases. The resulting electrolyte solution was shown to be significantly elevated in hydroxide concentration that in turn proved strongly absorptive and retentive of atmospheric CO2.

    Further, the researchers suggest that the carbonate and bicarbonate produced in the process could be used to mitigate ongoing ocean acidification, similar to how an Alka Seltzer neutralizes excess acid in the stomach.

    “We not only found a way to remove and store carbon dioxide from the atmosphere while producing valuable H2, we also suggest that we can help save marine ecosystems with this new technique,” said Greg Rau, an LLNL visiting scientist, senior scientist at UC Santa Cruz and lead author of a paper appearing this week (May 27) in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. When carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere, a significant fraction is passively taken up by the ocean forming carbonic acid that makes the ocean more acidic. This acidification has been shown to be harmful to many species of marine life, especially corals and shellfish. By the middle of this century, the globe will likely warm by at least 2 degrees Celsius and the oceans will experience a more than 60 percent increase in acidity relative to pre-industrial levels. The alkaline solution generated by the new process could be added to the ocean to help neutralize this acid and help offset its effects on marine biota. However, further research is needed, the authors said.

    “When powered by renewable electricity and consuming globally abundant minerals and saline solutions, such systems at scale might provide a relatively efficient, high-capacity means to consume and store excess atmospheric CO2 as environmentally beneficial seawater bicarbonate or carbonate,” Rau said. “But the process also would produce a carbon-negative ‘super green’ fuel or chemical feedstock in the form of hydrogen.”

    Most previously described chemical methods of atmospheric carbon dioxide capture and storage are costly, using thermal/mechanical procedures to concentrate molecular CO2 from the air while recycling reagents, a process that is cumbersome, inefficient and expensive.

    “Our process avoids most of these issues by not requiring CO2 to be concentrated from air and stored in a molecular form, pointing the way to more cost-effective, environmentally beneficial, and safer air CO2 management with added benefits of renewable hydrogen fuel production and ocean alkalinity addition,” Rau said.

    The team concluded that further research is needed to determine optimum designs and operating procedures, cost-effectiveness, and the net environmental impact/benefit of electrochemically mediated air CO2 capture and H2 production using base minerals.

    Other Livermore researchers include Susan Carroll, William Bourcier, Michael Singleton, Megan Smith and Roger Aines.


    Interesting technique. There is also some nice work being done in artificial photosynthisis.

    The devil however is in the last paragraph –

    further research is needed to determine optimum designs and operating procedures, cost-effectiveness, and the net environmental impact/benefit of electrochemically mediated air CO2 capture and H2 production using base minerals

    They are all still a long way off being ready to use on a large scale. No get out of jail free card for us just yet.




    Hi Toad

    I am doing some thinking along those lines. Trouble is this sort of energy stuff is really REALLY hard. This is cutting edge science. I did 5 years of maths, engineering and science at uni and I am nowhere near knowledgable enough to research the sort of things posted here. Its PHD/Nobel Prize type stuff.

    Digging stuff out of the ground and burnign it is easy. Finding stuff to replace it is really hard.

    My thinking is much smaller scale and more about how we take what’s already out there and integrate it into a power system that is owned and run by communities. Essentially off grid living but for whole communities not individuals. You get some nice economies of scale and system redundancy that way.




    Even with advancements in research and scientific knowledge it hasnt changed much since the industrial revolution re the energy that drives an economy.

    We went from wood, to whales, to coal, to oil and we are still at oil and coal 100 years later.

    Everything else costs too much to keep the illusion of civilisation ticking over.

    So we dream one day we science will solve the problem and we can continue the cornucopian fantasy.


    The only ideas worth pursuing are renewable, the dream of some scientific answer in the future, just allows the greedy fossil burners to continue without consequences for a little bit longer.

    As they drill deeper wells and turn to tar sands to keep their house of cards up for just that little bit longer.

    The economic model of renewables doesn’t suit the capitalist model.

    Its all about selling stuff over and over again so the very few can keep collecting money. and you cant sell the sun or the wind……yet

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