December 8, 2010 at 3:39 pm #253902
Would appear we are heading towards another fuel spike situation. Is this potentially a precursor to another GFC type of event? Similar signs in the US, Europe and Aus to the situation in 2008. Fuel increases, increases cost of living, decreases available funds for morgage repayments etc.
Hope I am wrong here. Watch this space……………….
Meanwhile, we in Australia still don’t have a strat fuel reserve and are still extremely reliant on road transport. Don’t know why Govt at all levels aren’t investing heavily in rail. It makes sense to me!
Oh well, I will continue to work hard on getting my orchard established, the chook shed completed and some more vegies in. Not as self sufficient or resiliant as I would like to be (jealous of so many ALSers) but I am getting there.December 8, 2010 at 4:54 pm #484560porgeyMember
Its School holidays.December 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm #484561kerriebMember
and winter in the northern hemisphere.December 8, 2010 at 9:17 pm #484562andre_halcyonMember
Regarding the GFC part, spikes in energy prices are always bad for the economy. Others in ALS would know far more about it but yes, the price increase is a bad thing for all concerned (bar OPEC members) in every way.December 8, 2010 at 11:12 pm #484563Shangri LaMember
I’d say it is not the school holidays – the price of WTI oil has been creeping up for a few months. Not good for the US economy which hasn’t got back on its feet. Who knows what will happen to ours? What is interesting is that the price of uranium has shot up 50% in the last few months.December 9, 2010 at 7:41 am #484564AnonymousGuest
yep all driven by greed of the multi-nationals.
better than relying on rail system (they’ll privatise rail and then the greed of multi-nationals will come into play and the network will deteriorate as they go for profits, and once it deteriorates the gov’ will have to take it back and at massive cost to the tax payer, fix it all up)that is aleady in place, farmers need to be closer to those who eat their food, but there is not even any thought in community housing developments to begin doing this, go back to the future, with how it was in the 40’s to 60’s. the only answer. won’t be any move this way until people demand it.
right now they aren’t even designing suburbs that can handle an effective bus system for public transport. so people still need cars as par for the course. and hybrid cars are not going to make any appreciable difference as lower socio economic families simply can’t afford them for one. not even enough taxis on the road up here, very common to see people who did manage to bus it to the shops waiting out in the heat of the day with trolley of weekly groceries including perishables waiting for taxis.
lenDecember 9, 2010 at 11:45 am #484565BootstrapperMember
Now might be a good time to remind everyone of Dmitry Orlov’s five stages of collapse. Being the most disconnected from ‘reality’, the financial sector of the economy is both the ‘Canary in the Coalmine’ – the leading indicator that all’s not well – and the first casualty when the ‘growth’ paradigm becomes unworkabe. FWIW, I don’t think the world’s going to come to an end any time soon. But the trajectory of Industrial civilisation is now inexorably downward. Orlov’s comments offer not a map, but a guide about what we might expect as we pick our way down the backslope of the Hubbert Curve.December 9, 2010 at 4:08 pm #484566WazzaMember
Various people have been predicting the end of everything as we know it for years, but so far it hasn’t happened. If I’m becoming a bit thick-skinned about it, the average citizen out there must be very hard to reach with the message. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe it mightn’t happen, but worrying about what may or may not be won’t add a single minute to my life. But I have spent a few years establishing a sustainable property and lifestyle that requires few, if any, external inputs to keep it going. I’ve done the best I can and will survive a collapse, if it comes, or I won’t. After several false starts I’m setting off mid January for the grand around Australia tour, so I was hoping Peak Oil wouldn’t start to happen in 2011. If it does, no sweat. I’ll just cut my daily driving distance to fit in with the price of fuel. A case of slowing down to smell the fuel pumps along the way.December 9, 2010 at 7:38 pm #484567
Some good points Wazza.
One of the fundamental issues with awareness is that too many people have sprouted ‘the world is going to end’ too early for too long. Now, when the IEA and many other Govts and big business, are starting or are taking PO and associated issues more seriously, the perception issues and ‘boy who cried wolf’ reality come to bare. Still barely rates a mention in mainstream and when it does, invariably it is linked to people who have made ill-informed claims previously and perhaps does not receive the attention it certainly deserves.
I spend much time and effort after hours studying and researching Resouce Depletion. I pay particular attention to fincnacial and resource idicators as well as independant media reports and studies etc. Dimitri Orlov is one of many who is attempting to highlight the obvious. I certainly don’t claim to be an expert, nor do I assert the world is going to end tomorrow. What I do highlight, is that there are similar indicators on a ‘global’ perspective which point to another Financial Crisis. Whilst I can not say for certain it will be a GFC event, I can say for example: That oil has been trending upwards whilst demand has remained neutral/slight upward baring. Cost is not matching demand. This is without major OPEC interferance and is a reality of increased extraction/production costs.
Certainly do not want to be a scaremonger here, so sorry if this is coming across that way. Just wanted to discuss our (Australias) lack of rail infrastructure, lack of general preparedness for large scale emergencies, inaction by Govt etc in the context of a situation in which oil prices appear to be on the rise. This may cause major problems overseas (maybe even local) ,which in this globalised economic environment, will have an impact financially on the world and therefore Australia.December 11, 2010 at 12:13 pm #484568roddam63Member
The concern with upward trending fuel prices is the flow on effect.
Living in a regional area, public transport seems to be focussed on school kids and shoppers not commuters. So, I’m faced with little choice but hopping in the car to get to work. Every extra dollar I pay for fuel is either a dollar I don’t spend elsewhere or an extra TWO dollars I need to earn. With tight budgets in most households, I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one thinking this way.
Plus, it impacts other non-negotiable areas of the budget, where the same equation can be applied. Pretty soon, money is directed to must haves only (food & shelter), loans go into arrears and the economy springs a leak.
When fuel prices go up it creates a negative feedback loop that doesn’t stop until the price goes down again like after the crash in 2008. These bumps in the graph leave behind a lot of wreckage and lots of people and businesses either wont recover or wont be recovered enough before the next bump completes. The world as we know it might not go out with a bang… it might just have the life sucked out of it as it starves for energy.
Fuel prices are the bubble in the level.
I don’t think you need to be a fatalist/doomsayer/’The end is nigh’ type to see the logic in finding a way to soften these effects.December 11, 2010 at 2:30 pm #484569KarmaMember
My son said to me he heard on the radio yesterday on his way home that the price of fuel will hit $3 a litre by Christmas, has anyone else heard this, I said that I didn’t think that could be possible but who knows!!December 12, 2010 at 8:08 pm #484570
Have not heard that one.
Did notice that fuel in and around Canberra is now in the high $1.30s.
Seems to me that the last time this started happening, there was much more talk/discussion about it. Appears to be very quiet in the community about this.
I personally believe this complacency (sp?) has krept back everywhere.
In my opinion, we have all collectively developed a tolerance for higher fuel prices, knowingly.
I would not be surprised if fuel prices continued to climb to the next ‘bubble’ point. As somebody else highlighted, the more you spend on fuel, the less you spend on other items (ie: Sub prime morgage in US as those close could not repay when fuel prices rose, and the domino effect commenced). It will pop again, it is just a matter of when.January 11, 2011 at 1:30 pm #484571January 11, 2011 at 4:11 pm #484572AnonymousGuest
yep that’s the one,
here they are up they are down we try to buy when they are down, use those dreaded fuel vouchers might as well pay for them in the groceries we buy.
usually up slightly higher on long wekends xmas failed for the oil co’s as the wet kept lots of people at home. fuel gouging and manipulation all done by the oil co’s because many have the fear hype of peak oil driving them so allows for this sort of manipulation.
we just go along pay more if we have to, no other option.
lenFebruary 24, 2011 at 9:58 pm #484573roddam63Member
With crude oil at $98+ per barrel, I’m guessing we’ll soon see cracks beginning to appear in the economy again.
And… I’m pretty sure the increasing price of oil isn’t caused by grocery chains giving 4 cents a litre discount.
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