November 1, 2009 at 1:06 am #399153hillbilly girlMember
I’m with you Gremmbles. REad the just yesterday that a woman died after spending 67 years in an iron lung. Bad luck for her she missed out on the Salk vaccine.
I suspect a lot of the problem comes from people misinterpreting medical jargon which tends to use common words,which have a common meaning, but which in medical parlance has a very specific meaning. As you say, Just my humble opinion.November 1, 2009 at 1:29 am #399154AnjaMember
At the end of the day, every parent has to live with their decisions.November 1, 2009 at 1:58 am #399155starkravenmadMember
LadyB, you raise some interesting points which I’m sure many parents have contemplated themselves.
But I do believe it’s pointless to blame people (or yourself) for naturally occuring diseases in the world. They’ve always been around and always will be.
It’s also quite natural for children to blame their parents for the decisions they’ve made in their lives. Whether it results in developing a preventable disease, or not playing with them enough as they were growing up.
Being peeved because you can blame someone or something, doesn’t lead to a life well lived either. 😉
Its human nature to blame somebody or somthing (we not all saints)
also theres a huge diff between not playing with kid and leaving them open to polio ect
but if my child died or suffered because i was trying to help them id feel a little better than if they died /suffered by not vac them but either way its somthing i hope i dont have to experience
also we vaccinated all 5 kids with no probs so im a little biased than if we had probsNovember 1, 2009 at 3:26 am #399156
But the point is that preventative vaccinations introduce the body to threats so it learns how to deal with them.
The point is real diseases provide a catalyst for antibodies to work on. Our immune systems are a defence mechanism designed to protect the body from threats. That will never change.
When the threat introduced by the immunisation is switched off, what does the immune system do with all those new antibodies? You guessed it….
You seem to imply that vaccinations work like some hunter killer, that must consume or die,
Yes the body does learn to deal wth it, by attacking like cells in your own body. Because that’s what millions of years of natural evolution has programmed it to do.
As far as I know, vaccinations were never designed to re-write the programming of our immune systems – just “trick” it into creating antibodies with nothing for them to do.
Given the science is there to prove how our immune systems work, and we know that vaccinations don’t actually change the defence nature of our immune systems – how do you know vaccinations work as they’re supposed to in the reading material?
No links or references I can look up?November 1, 2009 at 4:53 am #399157MetuMember
I’m shocked you need links to accept what I said (above) is true? :tongue: Here’s a place to start learning about how the immune response system works:
I don’t agree with a few statements, but pay particular attention to “Blood components”, as this describes the importance of “B” and “T” cells in the immune response.
“T” cells are directly related to “islets” which are responsible for the production of insulin in the body – my particular area of interest. The article says in regards to “T” cells…
“T cells attack antigens directly and help control of the immune response. They also release chemicals, known as interleukins, which control the entire immune response.”
Here’s another link to describe one of the possible causes of diabetes:
Pay particular notice too:
“Type 1 diabetes usually develops due to an autoimmune disorder. This is when the body’s immune system behaves inappropriately and starts seeing one of its own tissues as foreign. In the case of type 1 diabetes, the islet cells of the pancreas that produce insulin are seen as the “enemy” by mistake. The body then creates antibodies to fight the “foreign” tissue and destroys the islet cells’ ability to produce insulin.”
A little lower down in the same paragraph is states:
“It is unknown why this autoimmune diabetes develops. Most often it is a genetic tendency. Sometimes it follows a viral infection such as mumps, rubella, cytomegalovirus, measles, influenza, encephalitis, polio, or Epstein-Barr virus.”
Interestingly enough, many girls go on to develop type 1 diabetes when they hit puberty. It is often associated with a hormonal change – which is not out of the realm of possibilities. It’s also when many girls are routinely immunised with their rubella shots. I had a reaction to my rubella shot when I was 13, and my health deteriorated until I was diagnosed with diabetes at 15.
Circumstancial – perhaps? For me though, it was a clear, undeniable change. From the moment my arm swelled and I had a reaction, I kept waiting for my energy to return. It never did – until I received my first insulin injections two years later.
Yes it is a scary thought, and probably one of the hardest decisions I will have to make when my daughter hits puberty. To rebella shot or not, when she already has a 25% chance of developing diabetes through me?November 1, 2009 at 5:13 am #399158
Read those links and to be quite frank can’t understand where the introduced vaccines are predatory like you say, to me preventative vaccines are more like sacrificial lambs. And still can’t work out the connection with vaccinations and diabetes( I understand that the body thinks insulin is foreign, but that vaccinations are the cause?)
I’m shocked you need links to accept what I said (above) is true? :tongue:
Just trying to confirm, and keeping a open mind!November 1, 2009 at 5:48 am #399159MetuMember
I can understand it’s complicated, but did you get the part that T cells attack antigens directly, and is responsible for programming the entire immune response for the body?
Your own source said that vaccinations train the immune system to recognise certain antigens to build up immune response memory.
Yet other parts of the body carry the same protiens (ie: islets which produce insulin) which can be mistaken for a foreign antigen – after you’ve just trained it to recognise it’s the enemy, LOL.
Ironically the part I find most remarkable about the research material on possible causes of diabetes, is the diseases mentioned. As quoted before: “Most often it is a genetic tendency. Sometimes it follows a viral infection such as mumps, rubella, cytomegalovirus, measles, influenza, encephalitis, polio, or Epstein-Barr virus.”
Yet to get the high numbers of people developing type 1 diabetes today, we don’t have that much contact with those noted diseases – other than through mandatory immunisations. :geek:November 1, 2009 at 8:52 am #399160chookenMember
My daughter has the intellectual age of a six month old baby but she’s six years old. I would never ever give a baby a newborn hepatitis B shot again… I’ve read plenty of material in support of the idea that vaccines can be harmful and plenty in support of vaccines as safe, and I know what I wish I’d listened to, just in case.
At present, companies that manufacture vaccines and governments that mass purchase and administer them are in charge of research into possible links between autism (and other autoimmune diseases) and vaccinal adjuvants (the part of vaccines that heighten the immune response — usually heavy metals like mercury or aluminium). For these reasons alone, the question about safety needs to be continually posed.
Proper vaccine safety research should take into account the massive vaccine schedule changes of the past few decades as well as time intervals between vaccinal adjuvant exposure and autism symptoms (typically 2 years). And it also needs to take into account age at administration (e.g. the newborn’s blood-brain barrier is not fully developed). The infamous Scandinavian study my hospital brochure quoted to tell me vaccines were safe failed to satisfy these requirements, when considered in (painful) retrospect.
I make no living from science or anti-science; I’ve just read a range of arguments and filtered them for plausibility as well as for their usefulness in understanding my daughter’s condition.
I think vaccine safety is very much in doubt.November 3, 2009 at 12:38 am #399161NimrodelMember
A little off topic, but I have a question that hopefully someone reading this thread can help me with:
I work in aged care in a respite centre and have been told by my supervisor that vaccinations are being organised for all staff for H1N1. I am opposed to myself or future children being vaccinated and want to know if I can be forced to have this vaccine or else lose my job. My boss doesnt know and to be honest, I dont trust her (a trained nurse) to find out and tell me the truth.
So, does anyone know of any NSW or national legislation that relates to this, or have any suggestions of where I should start researching it?
EmNovember 3, 2009 at 12:50 am #399162baringaparkMember
please check out the AVN website.
There has been a great deal of concern over mandatory vaccinations for health care workers. You cannot be forced to have the vaccinations, but I believe some nurses in NSW have lost their jobs over this? (please don’t quote me, my memory is very hazy ATM)
Also do a search on ALS as I recall starting a thread on this very topic some time ago. Good luck :hug:November 3, 2009 at 11:40 pm #399163NimrodelMember
Thanks Elizabeth! Someone at work had printed out some info from the dept. of health and aging website which said that while it is strongly encouraged, the vaccination is not compulsory and a few other people at work are saying no to it so I think all is well…for now.November 4, 2009 at 1:01 am #399164redhen2Member
Just throwing this into the mix. Whats the role of disease? Maybe its to control the population numbers and health so the natural world stays in balance without one species dominating. Darwin was a pretty cluey chap with survival of the fittest but maybe humans academic intelligence is so advance and out of balance that it will cause the downfall of humans as a species. I would do anything to help a childs health and development but there has to be boundaries and limits. Maybe good health rather than this over emphasis on disease prevention is a better way to spend resources? Cheers porgey.
i was just thinking along similar lines. i certainly wouldn’t rejoice if one of my children died of an illness, but, you know, not vaccinating and letting nature do its thing may just help with a lot of problems of over-population.November 4, 2009 at 1:36 am #399165AnjaMember
From what I have read in previous threads on this topic and also outside of ALS, I believe it’s not the actual vaccine that is harmful, because in alot of cases a live virus is the vaccine, but the dangerous part is the preservative in them, which is often a form of mercury, one of the most poisonous substances known.November 4, 2009 at 1:59 am #399166
but the dangerous part is the preservative in them, which is often a form of mercury, one of the most poisonous substances known.
Mercury, lead, aluminium, nickel, cadmium and zinc are in tattoo ink, and that never stopped people. I wouldn’t mind betting a few anti-vac people have a tatt here or there. :confused:November 4, 2009 at 2:58 am #399167daviesgangMember
I was vaccinated against everything when I was a kid and yet I still got chicken pox, mumps, the measles twice and the german measles (rubella)3 times. I would love to have that explained to me. I didn’t get mild cases either I ended up in hospital with the measles and german measles (rubella) for months.
My kids are all vaccinated for the basics (measles, mumps etc) but I am not vaccinating them for the swine flu…it is too new for my liking. My doctor explained to me that it is just the normal fluvax but with some extra ingredients…no thanks.:confused:
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