January 11, 2013 at 8:48 pm #530255
If I’m tasked with a tree planting project, the specific purpose of the project is very important. If it’s for habitat, i.e. for endangered Regent Honeyeater populations which research I’ve been involved, the species of trees and other species such as mistletoe are critical. No point planting any tree species or any Eucalypt species.
Riverbank stabilisation requires specific species again.
To some degree, I’m sure everyone reading this will be aware of the importance of forests… Habitat tree planting anywhere anytime is worthwhile, better you use the best species though to make your task have the best outcome.
If we’re tasked with planting trees, i.e. to save the planet from catastrophic climate change, to reduce atmospheric CO2 to pre-industrialisation levels, we need to know many will do the job. What if there simply isn’t enough space on our planet to plant and many as it takes? As many as it takes isn’t a suitable parameter. Which species would best take up the CO2 and lock up the carbon for the longest period? Better plants trees that don’t easily die after fires, which species? How much CO2 would be released from machinery burning fuel to prepare soil and plant forests. Is there another solution that better achieves the desired outcome? There is a need to know.January 11, 2013 at 9:04 pm #530256
As trees tend to last upto a few hundred years, planting trees that are suitable to your climate and potential future climate will be a bit of a task,depending on the speed of warming and what happens with the rain fall patterns.
I am going to experiment with tropical trees in a subtropical climate,but its so water dependant.
You really wouldn’t want to have a major investment in a marginal agricultural tree crop expecting a long term return.
I think grape regions will be one of the first to suffer, as climate intricacies are massively important to either a great vintage or a very average vintage.January 11, 2013 at 9:53 pm #530257AnonymousGuest
the things is bullseye teh science seems to be in denial about teh worth of trees, there is oodles of land here in south east qld that could do with rehabilitation. around 100 years agao we were a growing nation building family farms then the wealth chasers with help from science got involved and sold the theory bigger is better so tree decimation began.
doesn’t need science the biggest affect on australia is the develpoment that came after settlement, so even 40 years ago we were heading for a cliff as all these temps apart from a few occured around 40 years ago before the co2 factor raised its ugly head.
40 years agao vic and sa had regular heat wave days through summer i remember people dying back then now that is around 20 years before the co2 factor. so yes when i drive around with eyes wide open i can see the damage caused by all sorts of development and when farms fail the farmer finds someplace else.
we ahve an acre so far we have planted around 40 or so native shrub trees, can’t plant forest trees as living among the gum trees has its hazzards.
so we are doing our best be it a small speck in an ocean of ruin.
lenJanuary 11, 2013 at 10:58 pm #530258
the things is bullseye teh science seems to be in denial about teh worth of trees
There’s not even a glimmer of accuracy in your statement.
What that is, is a sweeping and false statement, with no basis in fact what so ever, also, it is a slight on the character and profession of every scientifically qualified person.
You should pull yourself in line.
Facts are that which you so often seek, requested in your posts, sought from the expert scientists in their field of whatever your topic. However, when asked for what you so rigidly seek from others, you squirm around and avoid to provide facts yourself.
These are facts based upon my observational nature… :whistle:
I wonder have you ever read a single scientific report?January 12, 2013 at 12:28 am #530259
Bobbee post=352366 wrote: Something I really need to hear is what it is that the scientific community know needs doing to slow down and hopefully stop the planets fall into its worst possible scenario.
Can someone, hopefully you Bullseye, please explain in simple terms. 🙂
In short, since humans generally across our planet have failed at making even the slightest CO2 reductions, here’s a news story describing what’s failed and what’s needed.
Halting climate change will require “a fundamental and disruptive overhaul of the global energy system” to eradicate harmful carbon dioxide emissions, not just stabilize them, according to new findings by UC Irvine and other scientists.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130107100053.htmJanuary 12, 2013 at 8:08 am #530260AnonymousGuest
that’s the thing hey? whilst ever they hold the common man responsible they miss the fix, how can the common man now living a shoe string life have a positive effect on this co2 factor? we are not high end not even medium end consumers we live fortnight to fortnight and only frequent grocery and butcher shops.
so making power, food and necessities more expensive for the common people how does this stop teh medium to high end consumers from living to excess?
the proof seems to be in the pudding again, unless you can get rid of a lot of population from teh consumer chain there is no way to minimise the co2 factor. so we are living minimum style but still cop the chop along with the big consumers.
so without mass tree planting and with shops going broke as people can no longer afford to live, teh assumption is in theory co2 will decrease, good ‘o’ hey? but then will the climate change, me i don’t think the trend will change until the world goes through this cycle, what goes round come round.
sorry all i can see in this furphy is more misery for the down trodden.
it’s not just power station is it, it is all form of transport, and the need for transport, so if we stop and teh wasters and us down here live in abject poverty for how long will we have to live tht way to change the climate?
lenJanuary 12, 2013 at 9:26 am #530261lostinthefogMember
I’m with the person who posted that we should each take care of our own little corner and hope that the message will spread, for the most part we are pretty powerless in the global sense, I also agree with Len that the continual spiraling costs of basics is a very worrying trend. I noticed recently that all the gardens in the local country town are brown and dry, obviously some people don’t care about their gardens but this was EVERY garden and I can only presume it is because of the spiraling cost of water, once upon a time the sound of sprinklers was the sound of summer. And it surely must make country towns more vulnerable to fire if everything is tinder dry..
And one of the most helpful things for the planet and for our own health & budgets is the ability to grow our own food…pretty impossible without access to water, during the recent hot weather we had big sprinklers going from daylight to dusk…about 15 hours a day, I doubt very much we could have afforded to do that if we had had to pay for it.
So what’s to do…try to become as independant as possible, try to consume as little as possible, vote with your remote when they have crap, mindless TV programs…they wouldn’t make them if no one watched them!
I don’t know what we can do about our pitiful government…revolution maybe? Perhaps everyone should refuse to vote until we get someone who actually cares more about ordinary people and the planet than they do about feathering their own nests and ripping the guts out of the country with mining. Maybe everyone should refuse to pay their electricity bills until they reduce the costs..on principal I NEVER pay mine on time or in one go..the b@#*tards can wait for it 👿
Probably we should all spend less time hunched over our keyboards and more time gardening! 🙂January 12, 2013 at 9:52 am #530262AnonymousGuest
g’day lostinteh fog,
i think the lack of onvious humain ethics stops compassion for the less fortunate, that includes the immigrant issue. saw it metioned in media that the young in our society that needs the most welfare help(most are yet to contibute any income tax).
with the water factor currently we only have tank water so can’t plant anymore trees or vege’s, that means buying more fresh food with an increasing fortnightly food cost.
we often ring up those we owe money to and ask for an extension, that gives a bit of breathing space but the bill then has to be paid on teh new dues date, so then we hope nothing out of the oridinary happens. we aim to minimise drives to town sometimes we can achieve that other times things impact so we sue more fuel than we would like to.
we have dirt to move and create berm growing area but we can’t afford to pay anyone with equipment that could help, so it is pick and shovel into trailer work, we are not super healthy and in our 60’s. i can say as a DB T2 person all this excercise is not helping us lose a bit of weight or make us stronger??
yes all we can do is do our best for the habitat on our littel blocks of ground, the big end of town will never come to the party. teh bloke 2 doors down has 3 tanks we have 2, he has a bore so he has sprinklers going when he wants. we see bore water as using habitat water, and over sue can drag salt into teh fresh layer which flows on top of teh salt layer, and less forest rees on teh high ground means less water into teh aquafa and no barrier to icreasing salt issues.
anyhow take care we will have a price extracted from us.
lenJanuary 12, 2013 at 11:03 am #530263lostinthefogMember
It makes it a lot more difficult to help yourself if you lack the funds..easy to be ‘green’ if you have the dollars!
I do disagree to a certain extent that it is the ‘high end’ of town that are the big consumers…my husband works for some VERY wealthy people and they aren’t big spenders at all…in fact they are bordering on miserly! Some of them won’t even spend the money to keep their tools and machinery in good condition. Mind you they are ‘old money’…not cashed up Bogans! Go to any K Mart on a Saturday afternoon and you’ll see who buys all the cheap, rubbishy consumer goods…
We live pay to pay…fortunately we have low rent..a major part of us moving here was to get away from high rents and living expenses and to be able to grow our own food…or at least a large percentage of it, owning a property of our own is not on the cards for us and truthfully I wouldn’t want to be saddled with a mortgage…worst comes to worst we have a tent!
And then you get pollies like that stupid women and her dole comments…alright for her earning(and I use ‘earning’ in the loosest possible way) $850 per DAY…
Our water supply is river water, Len…not bore water…I tend to agree with you regarding bore water.January 12, 2013 at 11:16 am #530264
Len the cost of living pressures are because the system is slowly failing,economically and environmentally.
The two are linked,nothing is going to get cheaper or easier under this system.
I don’t whinge constantly about having not enough money on the internet and use it as an argument to stop all green initiatives that will long term benefit me and the environment.
I got rid of my debts,reduced my overheads,store a few months of food for emergency (that’s my bank balance)
I only shop every 3 months to save fuel and money.
I rarely drive the most economical car I can afford
I live within my means.
I am installing a fly wire door this week to improve cross ventilation,this should help cool down my house for free as the climate heats up.
Im waiting for the wet (its a reliable as godot)then will plant heaps of green manures to improve my soils for minimal input.
All my garden beds will turned to wicking beds to save water.
I’m actively improving my town and community become more sustainable through the community garden and various other volunteer activities.
And Im arguing with deniers on internet forums to try and get them to check their facts before spreading misinformation.
I have no faith in big government,the electorate or big business to make the changes required to alter our destiny,I suspect our only actions will be a knee jerk reaction to catastrophe.January 12, 2013 at 11:38 am #530265AnonymousGuest
sorry snags we don’t see it that way and there is no evidence apart from anecdotal to suggest that, our living costs increase directly related to addition of the carbon tax, you may learn that in time. the tax cannot but push prices up, truckies now charge a fuel levy, as they need to do this to cover increased levy on diesel at least. the tax does not hurt middle men they just push the cost onto the end users. just like in the water crisis we had up some time ago they where charged for using waer so they added that to the bottom price line, so only those who can afford little pay more.
now if it was all going to be an advantage? well that’s anoterh story hey?
you see snags it all fails because they are putting the cart before the horse so to speak.
you seem to accuse us of not living with in our means? that is so false.
a bit of heart felt stuff in there, our neighbour dislikes us using second hand ware he watches nearly all teh time, we don’t hide it. he said instead of second hand water why don’t we see owner of dam up teh hill 100 meters away and ask him to let us set up a syphon!! that would take money for teh poly pipe, and teh dam is only small being on a about 1/3 or less of a 1 acre property.
teh neighbour rips water from the habitat with his bore as well as 3X25kl tanks, he jsut paid to have one of them filled, you see sprinklers going in his landscape and vege gardens. luxury we will never have.
we only ahve one car it is 12 years old.
lenJanuary 12, 2013 at 1:54 pm #530266
My dad is in his mid 80s he is on a single pension who lives alone
He has diabetes,leukaemia and prostate cancer.
He has no private health insurance and regularly visits the government dentist and doctors and has spent a few weeks a year in hospital over the last few years.
He is really happy and grateful for his treatment.
He has had a vegetable garden for over 50 years at this house.
And at 85 still works it
He is the seed bank and seedling nursery for a vast group of people (all for free and over decades)
He has a massive compost bin
He uses grey water and tank water to water his veggies and fruit trees.
He feeds the neighbourhood with his excess.
He has a large family house that he heats with an expensive gas heater .
His hot water system is family sized and costs him more than a smaller more efficient one.
He has no chickens as he is in a suburban block
He rarely drives a 20 year old car, he had since new which is still in good shape and will see him out.
He isnt handy and pays tradesmen to do repairs on what he needs fixed.
He buys all his meat from the local supermarket.
He drinks wine
He eats like a king, not sausages or mince.(he minces and butchers larger pieces of cheaper meat he buys on special.)
He has everything he needs in terms of white goods, clothes and stuff.
He doesn’t have solar power or solar hot water as he knows when he dies his house will be ripped down for a Macmansion and doesn’t have the time left to recoup the investment.
He had no superannuation or much savings and has literally saved tens of thousands of dollars from his pension that he doesn’t have a need to spend.
He doesn’t think the carbon tax has had any noticeable effect on his standard of living as the pension increases more than made up for it.
And he doesnt whinge.
He has a very open and philosophical view on life and is politically and environmentally aware.
He is a great example of being able to not only make do, but produce excess on very little.
Someone I have learnt heaps from and try to copy .
I wish he was on the internet sharing his knowledge on how to survive at least people would learn something from him,because he is actually doing it and succeeding, not whingeing about how the system is failing him and being a short sighted dog in manger.January 12, 2013 at 2:08 pm #530267casalentaMember
lostinthefog post=352388 wrote: I’m with the person who posted that we should each take care of our own little corner and hope that the message will spread, for the most part we are pretty powerless in the global sense, I also agree with Len that the continual spiraling costs of basics is a very worrying trend.
I also agree with Bobbee that if each of us did even a little it would amount to a great deal, and that’s basically what needs to happen, I think.
And one of the most helpful things for the planet and for our own health & budgets is the ability to grow our own food…pretty impossible without access to water, during the recent hot weather we had big sprinklers going from daylight to dusk…about 15 hours a day,
What about mulch? I’ve gone from about 3 inches of mulch to over a foot and even during the 45 degree day and those leading up and following it I didn’t have to water except for the first day. I felt under the mulch after that and it was still damp. I was able to rig up some shadecloth over the most vulnerable plants though.
I don’t know what we can do about our pitiful government…revolution maybe? Perhaps everyone should refuse to vote until we get someone who actually cares more about ordinary people and the planet than they do about feathering their own nests and ripping the guts out of the country with mining.
I don’t know either. A peaceful revolution would be good. What seems to be the main problem is the apathy of the majority of people. I handed out how-to-vote cards at one election and it was depressing how many people said they had no idea who they were going to vote for. More than one said they would vote for me because I had the nicest smile! (I was just handing out the cards, not standing for election.)January 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm #530268
A peaceful revolution to what ?January 12, 2013 at 2:31 pm #530269Lady BeeKeymaster
Let’s keep it on topic, please everyone. This is about adapting to climate change and other disasters. It is NOT about how bad the Government is, how poor we are, or even whether climate change is real or not. It is about how we can adapt to changes.
Instead of being negative all the time and complaining about what everyone else is or is not doing, let’s take the positive angle and talk about what YOU are doing or can do to adapt.
If all you want to do is whinge and moan, go find someplace else to do it.
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